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ok enough of this law crap that takes up my whole screen... you need basics here.. first.. he should have been sent back immiediately... final answer.. yes final answer.. he is illegal and his father has rights.. piss on both of them.. just cause he was born in cuba.. you know now that i think of it.. lets just go out and take all the sick lame and lazy.. and bring them here.. save everyone the damn b.s.
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Shall we send the 11 Circuit Court of Appeals to Cuba with him? There's a cop in a little town just outside of Kileen, Texas that I don't like either. Send him too? How about all of DEA? I think Jo-Jo wants them kicked out.
When we get all this done, I want to be King of America. What? You do too??? Who will we get to decide who gets to be king?????????????? /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com

 

Check out this picture attachment...got it at work today, dont know where it came from, thoought it was fitting! check out the dude behind Klinton...

/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif
JK
O|||O
78CJ5 360

 

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The Miami relatives had a court decision that the boy should go back to the custody of the INS. This was ignored and the law was broken.
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NOT TRUE. INS APPLIED FOR A COURT ORDER TO TRANSFER ELIAN, BUT IT WAS DENIGNED. There was no court order to transfer Elian back to the INS. Read the order from the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals which was issued on April 19, 2000. INS demanded, INS requested, INS threatened, INS appealed, but INS DID NOT get a court order. In fact, the 11th Circuit came down STRONGLY AGAINST INS, Reno Justice, the Executive Branch and the father, and FOR Elian and his right to apply for asylum on his own WITHOUT help from anyone or PERMISSION from anyone. If you want to know the truth, go read the court order and forget the crap on the new media.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com

 

Jeepn -

In reply to:

In your case the child should still be returned to his father. What right would the uncle have to trying to gain custody of the child? It'd be like someone trying to claim custody of their nephews, whether in a stressful situation or not. Now if the father were abusive or dangerous to the welfare of the child, it's a different ballgame.

So would I be correct in assuming that you believe that the same plan would also be executed in the "rescue" and "reunion" of this child with his father inside the Waco compound?

Liberals don't mind being lied to . . . they just want to be lied to by someone they trust!

 

I'm sorry, please refresh my memory, what exactly was it as Waco that started the whole mess? Seems to me they were a religeous sect, wacko in my opinion, but they had their beliefs. Why were troops brought in? I remember bits and pieces, but it's intermingled with other cases.

My opinion is that parents have a right to their child, all other family members have a privilege. If the courts decree one parent has custody, so be it, but should that parent die or become inable to carry out that task, custody should fall to the other parent, so long as the child's welfare isn't endangered. In Elian's case, custody should have been transferred to his father immediately (before reaching the US). HOWEVER, based on Doug's postings, he should be allowed to follow the directions of the law, thus not be deported to his father.

Doug,
I see the problem now, thanks again. It'll be interesting to see which side of the fence the final shoe drops on. Imagine, the gov't waging its own internal conflict, but now it'll be public. As far as CJDAVE taking care of him, God help us all. Elain will become the next Castro of Cuba, riding in a built CJ with Quadratrack, living on this board (hooray for the 2K posts!), and he'll turn Cuba into a 4Wheeling wonderland. Problem is, then I'll have to shell out more money to get my damn jeep down there. Hey, maybe that's not a bad idea, we can start our own Jeep Replublic. Imagine: no lift laws, no smog controls, no enviros (lets make them illegal), and no pavement. Ode to Elian!

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7"Lift/33"TSL's/IHC D44's 4.10's Lock'd

 

In reply to:

I'm sorry, please refresh my memory, what exactly was it as Waco that started the whole mess?

Well, "Child protection was, according to the government, the reason why the FBI could not wait to see if Koresh would keep his promise to surrender after completing a written exposition of the Seven Seals of the Book of Revelation."

So, I guess you could say the planned intervention "started" with allegations of physical and sexual child abuse - not by the loving parents - but by David Koresh.

Now compare with this: http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/humrts.html (and this is a short list)

Hope that puts things in perspective for you. Kind of makes Waco look like Mr. Roger's Neighborhood don't ya think?

Liberals don't mind being lied to . . . they just want to be lied to by someone they trust!

 

Doug, you are the man.. thorough and concise, as usual.

The only point I would make is that this kid did NOT make it US Soil on his own. He was picked up by a fishing boat 2 miles out.. Not sure how that affects the how ordeal, this is ground breaking precedent being set here.

Additionally, with regards to housing of immigrants applying for asylum in the State of Florida. INS has 3 or 4 compounds which they call "detention facilities" located throughout the state (in this case it would be Krome Avenue Detention Facility). The facilities are basically prisons. The immigrants are kept there and are free to do as they please so long as they don't cross the barbed wire fence. They are given clothing, amenities and three squares a day while they await their application hearings. Most are approved and released within 7-10 months to the general population, their families, etc.

On the point of revolution (since this has been a hot topic here recently). The events of the past weekend are clearly a violation of Constitutional law. This type of violation, as Doug previously stated, is one of the key factors in the US Revolution. Anyone wanna take bets on the future of our country? I'm in for my life.. what about you?

I posted on the last Elian thread about the Cuban sentiment in Miami. It's quite distressing to me. As previously stated, I grew up in Miami. LIved there my whole life until graduation high school (when I promptly got the first ticket outta there). The Cuban Americans in Miami who fly the Cuban flag and want Fidel out of Cuba and Democracy reinstated are Full of CRAP. They talk that trash because they lack the education and motivation to learn about America's history, it's political orientation and it's future and they need something to rant about. They only thing they CAN rant about is the "motherland" and it's demise. I find this utterly ignorant and it's the upsurge of immigrants from Cuba that made me leave the beautiful city of Miami. When 3rd generation Cuban kids would come into school talking that trash, my answer was "Go back then!" Hell, I'll buy you a ticket, get out of my country and go fight the revolution. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of patriotic old timers in Miami. They love this country more than life and would gladly give theirs to defend it. It's the new breed on Cuban-Americans that are really not sure what they do or don't stand for or how to go about acheiving their goals. They are a powerful force in Miami and the surrounding areas. They've been elected to public office, courts, law enforcement, every facet of society. The confusion is obvious. They are flying Cuban flags but want the kid here, in the US. What gives? Fly the US flag, get it straight! They don't want the child in the US. What they REALLY want is the kid (and themselves) back in Cuba under a different political system. That's what they are really pushing for.

Additionally, while Fidel was voted into office, one could make a strong case that, as in other "third world" Latin American countries, the votes were fixed. It was more like "You are voting for Fidel, right?". The guy asking the question was in full battle dress holding a loaded Russian machine gun and was ready to pop a round in your ass if you didn't answer the right way. Most of the votes were either fake or were coerced.

Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..

 

More news!
It has been reported that Elian has said that he wants to go back to Cuba with his father. The 11 Circuit order of 4/25/00 (single judge order) directs the Justice Dept not allow Elian to go to any Cuban official's house or to any area where the U.S. would lose jurisdiction, like embassies etc. This order was issued as a clarification of the 4/19/00 3 judge order.
The asylum hearing is supposed to be May 11, 2000. Reno Justice and Cuba cannot allow Elian to go to that hearing and ask for asylum because based on past similar hearings IT WILL BE GRANTED. One of two things will happen. He will publically reject the hearing and ask to be returned to Cuba thus cancelling the hearing, or he will go to the hearing and ask to be returned to Cuba with his father. I suspect the hearing will not happen.
Elian was born 2 years after his mother and Juan were divorced. Are we sure that Juan really is the father????? Seems to me that question should be considered if we have are discussing the E.G. deal from a parental rights point of view. Just a thought.

The 11 Circuit has said that Elian CANNOT be removed to Cuba before the hearing, and they (the court) are not pleased with the way Elian was removed from Miami.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com

 

Carl,

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The only point I would make is that this kid did NOT make it US Soil on his own. He was picked up by a fishing boat 2 miles out.. Not sure how that affects the how ordeal, this is ground breaking precedent being set here.
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This was a point that I was unsure of when this thing first started. After researching it I believe that it boils down to this - If a Cuban's feet touch dry ground, then he is here and eligable for the asylum request. Doesn't make any difference how his feet got here. 'Course his head has to follow because he has to ask for asylum. /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif That's why the coast guard chases them off. The 11th Circuit's language seems to back that up too:
"Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States . . . irrespective of such alien's status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title."

Carl, I think I come down on the same side as you about the Cubans being here in the first place. I am concerned about all the ILLEGAL aliens too, but we have a serious choice here. The law says a particular thing. A MAJOR court has ruled a certain way. IT IS THE LAW OF THE LAND. Do we follow the law and maybe try to get it changed, or do we violate the law and an order from a serious, big time, major, heavy duty court because we don't like the law? And especially do we allow that court's order to be violated by a renigade, irresponsible bunch who are vastly overstepping their constitutional authority to violate this court's order? That is the important question. It is one thing to protest, to write letters, to hold up signs, to use bull horns, to link arms and block streets. It is quite another for the executive branch to send a heavily armed swat team into the private residence of a citizen of the U.S. That isn't a protest.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com

 

I heard a interview over the radio at work yesterday in which a US government spokesperson said that there were no current plans to attempt to normalize relations with Cuba because Cuba has not instituted "democratic" reforms.

Great... our noble executive branch wants to send a child back to a country that it calls a dictatorship, without legal authority to do so, as Doug pointed out. So what is the catch??? Can it be that Clinton is doing this because he "feels Juan Miguel's pain???/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif I doubt it. It is amazing to think how fast our executive branch acted on this matter, when you consider it was acting on the behalf of a FOREGIN citizen./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

BTW, When Elian was in the custody of the Miami family, THEY paid for his upkeep....Who's paying for the big vacation now!!????? /wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif

 

Agreed Doug. Problem is, how do you get rid of the stink in the Executive Branch? We couldn't impeach the guy, it's too late now anyway. We'd have to go in there and sweep the place out, floor to ceiling, and then there's no guarantee that the next guy won't use Clinton's misconduct as precedent to do as he pleases. I see this as a fundamental glitch in the system. We have 3 branches that are supposed to check and balance each other, but apparently none of them have the power to check the Executive branch. This is going to be a snowball effect to a free-reigning government if we don't do something about it. Obviously, I'll be voting for Bush in the next election, but what if he's a Clinton in Bush's clothing? What if he talks the talk until he's elected and then HE does as HE pleases? There's alot of people who voted for Clinton that are pretty pissed about his actions right now. We could see a trend starting here. Well, really, who knows when it started, it's just escalated into a serious national concern.

So, what does the court do? Who do they hold in contempt of the law for violating a court order?

Another thing I can say, and I've said this before. There is NO WAY that the protestors outside the home of Elian's relatives would have EVER given that kid up peacefully. Listen, these folks really believe in what they are protesting and they'll riot, shoot, stab, kick, punch or otherwise stop anyone from breaking that "human chain", even if it means jail, death or deportation. It's fanatical. Believe me when I tell you that NO ONE wants a riot in Miami, I was there after a young black man was shot riding a motorcycle by an Hispanic Miami cop for no apparent reason and it was a war zone down there for a long, long time. I mean, people were dying because of skin color or because they spoke different languages.

Frankly, I'm amazed that no one outside the home was paying attention to the forced entry. Had it been in daylight, there would have been bloodshed. Someone was sleeping on the job, because that entry team would not have made it in that house without the National Guard there to back them up on the scene and even then, it would have caused a riot. I'm really surprised they weren't greeted by a throng of angry protestors.

Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..

 

Just another thought. What if all this hub-ub isn't really what it seems? What if there is something else brewing behind the scenes? Maybe our government is trying to provoke Cuba into making a threat? Maybe Clinton and Reno are manipulating this young boy and his father, like pawns almost, in some sort of back room negotiations with Castro. WHAT IF... Juan is actually couriering sensitive information or money back to Castro and with the US Govt. help getting there and back. Or Vice Versa, maybe Juan is secretly a revolutionary who is now getting instructions from our Govt.? He's on one of the most secure Air Forces Bases in America and our Govt. has full access to the guy..

What if...

I'm not much of a conspiracy buff, but this situation sure has some interesting plot twists.

Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..

 

Cark, we get rid of the stink in the Executive branch by NOT VOTING FOR HIS SIDE KICK ALL GORE...

 

Carl,
Yes, indeed, some food for thought there but I really don't think it's very likely. It would make a good Tom Clancy novel, though./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

 

​

-Dorian
88 YJ w/ factory paint

 

Well well well here I go #1 the only ones to blame for the raid takeing place is the whinnie little female and friends down in (NORTH CUBA)!
#2 Mrs Reno did everything she could to avoid the sitution.
#3 The entry team did a damn fine job, and did it as right as the envirmonet allowed.
#4 I WISH they had used /OVERUSED Pepper spray and RUBBER Bullets!!On all the *supporters*
The fact is the kid belongs w/ his dad! It's like his U.S. north cuban familey kidnaped him.& now our tax dollars are going to get spent in a huge law suit over all this it's simple put him on a plane send him back to cuba and if that upsets some people let them move someplace else.
SEMPER FI !!!!!!!!!!!