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A couple of Q's

4.4K views 89 replies 13 participants last post by  Buck  
#1 ·
A couple of Q\'s

What vehicles have the front driveshaft on the left side instead of the right?
Do they have centered rear shafts or are they also offset to the left same as the front?

GM's hopefully?

S-10 Blazer?
Full sized Blazers?

Also what vehicles use IFS?

Never really paid much attention till now.
Thanks in advance.

98% is Understanding it
Just throwing parts at it doesn't solve anything.
 
G
#8 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

My 85 S10 blazer is offset to the left with IFS, They should be plentiful in the salvage yards.... They are around here. If you are wanting to build a rock crawler, I dont recomend IFS unless you want to keep buying CV shafts all the time.....
 
#9 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

Yes, it's a new project.
Don't worry, it will look like a Jeepster - sort of.

So far my testing of the suspension design has been limited to models and a wooden mock-up, but it looks very promising.

The S-10 Blazer - IFS but offset? Or is the front driveshaft angled?

What's the weak link on the S-10 Blazer, other than CV's?

What I need is a decent, but light weight front IFS diff.

And a transfer case where the front shaft exits on the driver's side, so I can offset the engine to the right a bit for balance. A center rear exit would be OK, but left side exit would be preferred, as power output would be in a strasight line. This isn't for highway use or even at speeds much over 200.

(OK Hurc, that's really 20.0.)

For some reason the post stuttered, I think Bill Gates reached through the window and pressed enter twice. twice. twice. twice. twice.

98% is Understanding it
Just throwing parts at it doesn't solve anything.
 
#11 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

Errr.. IFS+rock crawler don't mix unless you could put on a solid housing and then set up the suspension like a straight axle. It would sorta be like a home grown portal axle. I saw a picture of a D60 setup like that. Something about the suspension geometry of IFS does not allow as much traction as a straight axle. The Toyota guys seem to have all the details on that. If you want to save some weight just fill the diffs with helium, or use the center sections from a Honda CRX. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

John
70 and 66 Jeepsters with stuff.
Image
 
#12 ·

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#13 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

Yes the diff is offset with the tansfer case on the s-10 blazers. Anothe week point would be the the chain drive transfer case. I cant remember rigth off hand what it is but I know its a NP case. I think mine is like a NP 231 but dont quote me on that. The transfer case also has the slip yoke on the rear so thats another week point. I know someone parting one out right now. You do know they have a torrsion bar setup on the front instead of springs right!!!!!
 
#14 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

I was thinking that for simplicity, skip the transfer and just use double/triple row chain drive and cheap(compared to alot of things + megabeef) pillowblock bearings. You can have the yokes exit where ever you'd like, the ratio is easily changed by swapping gears, and you can get the chain at any Graingers, etc. The down side is it would be exposed, but could be moved inside the frame rails. Sure be quicker to carry a roll of chain and tools for trailside fixes, than tearing out a transfer to replace an output shaft.
BTW, Ford used D44 TTBs (semi-IFS) with both leafs and coils, and driverside pig.

Caver Dave
Vintage Jeeps(ters) have Character,
new Jeeps just have payments.
 
G
#15 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

Sounds like an interesting project/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif. If you keep your rig light your CV's should be ok. I've always thought it would be cool to use a CVT and a gearbox as a drive train for a rock crawler. You don't have to worry about a clutch, it would be supper light weight, and the CVT can tunned vary easialy to what you want. I've driven two wheel drive, FIS, mini baja cars that I have taken places where no car could go (or should)going faster than I though possible (going up stairs at 20 miles an hour is fun)/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif. Good luck RRich, if you want/need more information on suspension systems I know of a few good text books that are informative.

1970 Jeepster half cab
231 V6, SM465, NP205
becoming less and less stock everyday
 
G
#16 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

How's the Ed Zachary disease? (Inside joke)

Rich,

If you're interested in a lightweight IFS, you may consider Toyota running gear, BUT the rear diff is centered and the output of the front is on the jeep/chevy/passenger side. Earlier FJ40s had the rear diff offset to the pass. side. Maybe a combo of newer Toy IFS and older FJ 40 or 70 era Waggie (Q-trac) rear 44 may work for you.

1980 and up Waggies have the pumpkin on the Ford side, or you may look for some Exploder running gear as the 95 and newer (I believe) has disk brakes on the rear 8.8. I would stay away from S-10 stuff, as I don't know of any strong parts on an S-10, and not many on an Exploder. The Exploder T-cases aren't built for anything but snow.

Actually, I don't know of any trucks with a rear diff on the driver's side. If you could live with switching sides (passenger side), look into late 70 Waggie or J-truck with Quadratrac, as both 44s are offset to the pass. side. This is what I'm looking at for my next build, using a late model Dana 18 T-case and having the diffs inline. Some of those short wheelbase J-20s may have an offset Dana 60 rear.

Another choice is 3/4 ton Ford (driver's side front diff) or Chevy (pass. front diff) because they were factory spring over and the width with narrow tires/wheels would be great for stability. I'm planning on basically fenderless to keep a low center of gravity and running min. 35" tires.

Hope this was of some help.

Ed Zachary.

From Southeastern Indiana...Guy
CJ7, 258, T18, Dana 44s ARB/Detroit, 4 wheel discs, YJ springs w/shackle reversal
93 Toy T100 4X4 (daily driver)
1971 Jeepster Commando - all stock!
 
#17 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

ARCA's tire size limit is 40, so I'll be close to that. I'll be happy if I can get under the 2000 lb mark (with the excessivly heavy tires), so it should be light. Hopefully that will stop it from doing that Hummer trick.
About the only thing that I like about the Hummer is the tire inflation trick, and it's an option that most don't have. I'd bet it would feel like driving a motorhome over the trails. I've had my MH in some stupid places I shouldn't have tried, not fun.

What I need is a transfer case that the front exits on the drivers side, so I can offset the engine to the right slightly to balance off driver's weight - as well as give a little driver's foot room from the set-back. Centered rear output is OK, as the front/rear shaft side angles can be "split".
Diff requirements are light in weight, narrow, matched ratios front/rear, and air lockerable.

The suspension is an outgrowth from one we came up with years ago when I owned part of a race car chassis shop. A customer wanted a trick front end on his heavy off road buggy - I think it was a mid engine'd 427 2WD. He wanted to take the Baja 1000 by storm.
We were greenlighting about why the VW front end works so well and the advantages of a single A frame - the Wampuskitty was the big thing then. I showed my techies a design I played with in College, but never built.
The customer wanted a suspension capable of 200 MPH over really rough stuff. Our specialty was keeping Formula squares on the ground, so it was interesting breaking new ground.

We ended up building a radio controlled car for testing - an RC-10 modified with our experimental on it. Wow!
We were able to keep it straight and level on stuff other's flipped. I couldn't keep up with it in my Willies Wagon on a dirt road even though I was doing almost 70. Since it was so small the tiny bumps were huge by scale comparison, and it went very well.
It never came to pass on the buggy though. By then the customer was out of money.

This will be a similar design but different, as speed is no longer a criteria, "getting there" is. Actually it's not really that far away from conventional design, just proportions and angles are different.

I'm not sure yet whether the rear will be IFS or not. The design of the frame is such that it will be possible to convert it if needed.

A friend left his front wheel drive Subaru at my ranch, the front's caved in. I've been looking at that thinking it may be a good place to fab a quick test on the design - for the front suspension - may be better than a model. I've already got the rocky hill behind the house to try it on - about 300 feet of boulders at about 40 degrees up.

When I tell folks I want to drive up there they laugh and tell me they'll call those guys with the pretty white coats - where the sleeves tie in back. They said I can even have my own rubber lined room.

So far my model testing and wooden mock-up are looking good.
But - as a guy said on a wine commercial "We'll make no wine until it's time."

I didn't know the S-10 had torsion bars, guess I never paid attention. As I understand it from the posts the S-10's front shaft is on the left - drivers side? I was amazed the other day when I was under a friend's Nissan, it had torsion bars too.

Sure would be nice to have inboard brakes, but that would be asking too much. Maybe something could be cobbled up though. I doubt ARB makes a set-up for Jags.

And, if at all possible I want it all to be American. OK, I know most stuff is imported even though it's considered American.

One of the reasons IFS has a little trouble sometimes as there's really no interaction between the wheels side for side. At times this is good, but other times you need some. Having a solid axle is akin to a sway bar - sort-of.

The chain drive idea tickles my imagination too. Is there a website that shows such a thing? Seems like it would be a great weight saver, simple, easy to fix too. Side benefit would be when you high center, the chain will just grind off the obstruction till you are free.

Thanks for all your comments, they are giving me good places to start.

98% is Understanding it
Just throwing parts at it doesn't solve anything.
 
#18 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

One other important thing thing to consider when picking a t-case is how it shifts. You want to be able to operate each axle independantly. That way if you are in a real tight spot you can put the rear axle in nuetral and pivot off your front tires. You will turn on a dime.

2000 pound rig? Wow, that is light! Your tires will eat up almost half that!

John
70 and 66 Jeepsters with stuff.
Image
 
#19 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

Tires eating nearly half that -- yes - if conventional tires are used. I think it's time to find something more suitable - like maybe a front tractor tire?
Tire makers have gone crazy with off road tires trying to make them impervious to punctures, but they've gone so heavy just the weight alone is enough to puncture through on something sharp. (There comes a time when the strengthening weight of the bridge exceeds the strength of the bridge.)

Dunno, maybe there is no decent alternative.

What T-case allows rear disconnect with front engaged?

The chain drive idea is intriguing. Any info anyplace on what others have tried?

98% is Understanding it
Just throwing parts at it doesn't solve anything.
 
#22 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

Well if you look at how the D20 shifts you can see that each shift rail operates a different axle. So you could do twinsticks on the D20. The D18 is close to the same, but not in the shifting pattern. I am not shure how other t-cases shift, but I think you can do it with the Atlas II, so the NP205 might do it as well. Tractor tires have no grip, and they are a lot heavier than swampers! I know, I have driven tractors for a while now, and changing a tire really sucks! Any 40" tall tire is going to be heavy, that is one big chunk of rubber.

John
70 and 66 Jeepsters with stuff.
Image
 
#25 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

Yeah, you're right Hurc. But, also on POR there was a thread about whether or not you can do front or rear wheel drive with the t-case, so search there anyway. /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

Also, on the chain driven sprocket t-case, those are often run in mud trucks. A guy at my church ran one in his F-350 w/44 Ground Hawgs. That truck was unstoppable, and the t-case was simple.

Here's a pic from Peterson's Sept '01, p. 98:

Image


Joel F.
Marquette, Michigan
Project No-Bucks
'68 Jeepster Commando
'79 Scout Traveler
 

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#26 ·
Re: A couple of Q\'s

In reply to:

But, also on POR there was a thread about whether or not you can do front or rear wheel drive with the t-case,
What t-case? I did it on my D20, so I know it works, I tried and failed on my D18, so it does not work, I have no $$ for an Atlas 2, or a D300, and I don't want a NP231, 205, 203, or the like, so I guess I will never know. /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

John
70 and 66 Jeepsters with stuff.
Image