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post #1 of (permalink) Old 08-03-2001, 01:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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1.3EFI-->>1.6EFI swap

Kinda inspired by the earlier Engine Options thread I was considering the following idea whether it's possible to take the short 1.6 block (basically the bottom end with no head) and place it instead of my stock 1.3 stuff. From the earlier posts it appears that I can keep my 1.3 head.
So basically I would increase the engine's capacity (therefore HP and torque) and at the same time I keep my existing EFI intake, harness and exhaust.
Cheap and easy option it seems!!!!
The only problems that I'm aware of would be the <font color=red>engine<->bellhousing</font color=red> interface, which could be solved either by a simple adapter plate, or a Sidekick tranny as well as the <font color=red>oil pan<->something_down_there</font color=red> interference. Or am I missing something obvious????

BTW, many thanks to all the power minds on this board; I've learned a lot from you guys, it's priceless.
[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 08-03-2001, 02:17 AM
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Re: 1.3EFI-->>1.6EFI swap

yup......you are right...it will work..
you will need a 1.6 modified motor mount too.....

all the messages about what motor is best....everyone has an opinion.....and it's their right to have one or two...lol

A friend of mine just built a 1.6 8 Valve, and used a 1.6 8 Valve head...he milled the head, decked the block and is using dual carbs...with a Low End Cam....

To make up for the milled head and decked block he used an adjustable cam sprocket, that I was about to test out...man that made that thing pick up some power!

5th gear with 33's and just a GRSII...light on the gas...with no whimpering for power....up hill, against the wind....I'm going to get some more of those cam sprockets made..they really help out when you want to dial your cam in!

Dave

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 08-03-2001, 04:58 AM
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Re: 1.3EFI-->>1.6EFI swap

you can use the 1.6 head with your 1.3 EFI for even more power

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 08-03-2001, 10:25 AM
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Re: 1.3EFI-->>1.6EFI swap

I dunno what the fuel flow rate of the 1.3 EFI is but you should investigate it to make sure that you get the full amount of power that you are due.

If the injector is too small you can always increase the size of the injector and/or increase the fuel pressure as long as you don't start hitting the injectors duty cycle.

HTH

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 08-03-2001, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 1.3EFI-->>1.6EFI swap

To DaveAZ:
<font color=red>>>you will need a 1.6 modified motor mount too.....</font color=red>

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

<font color=red>>>A friend of mine just built a 1.6 8 Valve, and used a 1.6 8 Valve head...he
>>milled the head, decked the block ...</font color=red>

That's what I'm planning too, except I don't want to use carburator[s] at all, I can troubleshoot EFI fairly easily, while any carb problem leaves me in the dark. Go figure [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

<font color=red>>>To make up for the milled head and decked block he used an adjustable cam
>>sprocket...</font color=red>

Where did you get that sprocket - or did you make it yourself???

To ZOOKY:
<font color=red>>>you can use the 1.6 head with your 1.3 EFI for even more power</font color=red>

What's exactly the difference?? Different shape of combustion chamber?? Bigger ports?? Bigger valves?? Anything else??

To RootMoose:

<font color=red>>>I dunno what the fuel flow rate of the 1.3 EFI is but you should
>>investigate it to make sure that you get the full amount of power that you are due.

>>If the injector is too small you can always increase the size of the injector
>>and/or increase the fuel pressure as long as you don't start hitting the injectors duty cycle.</font color=red>

That is of my concern too. I suppose the 1.3 injector is smaller than 1.6. I don't know what the flow rate of either one is - do you?? Would the 1.6 injactor fit the 1.3TB I wonder....The c'puter can accomodate a sligt increase of the injector size, but not much before it falls off of the pre-programming operating tables. Hmmm...I guess a 'live' experiment would prove me right (or wrong I'm afraid).

FYI, playing with the fuel pressure is another thing worth trying on any EFI engine regardles of other modifications. I once came across a test results done on a new F350. They've done different mods to it and put it on the dyno each time to check power/torque in-[de]crease, fuel consumption, etc. The mods included intake (K&N filter, thermo-barriers, ports, etc.), exhaust, cams, and also the fuel delivery pressure. First of all the actual pressure was too high by a few PSI....they put an adjustable regulator in and tested the truck again with different pressures. The best dyno results came from the pressure set slightly below (if I remember correctly) OEM value.....most of us don't have a dyno, but a careful observations and measurements can be home-made as well as anything else I suppose.

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 08-03-2001, 12:16 PM
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Re: 1.3EFI-->>1.6EFI swap

TO get it right, you need the 1.6 TBI and I would assume the ECM too. The million dollar question is, can the 1.6 ECM "plug and play" into the 1.3 TBI harness? If so, the conversion would be super simple. Drop the 1.6 long block and TBI into the Sammy and swap ECM's.

<font color=blue>Yankee Tim</font color=blue>[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 08-03-2001, 12:43 PM
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Re: 1.3EFI-->>1.6EFI swap

Keep it simple, boost the pressure to start. There are formulae for doing the calculations based on what your current injector is.

As for the 1.3/1.6 fuel flow rates. I dunno, probably quite low. Go to CarQuest or similar and do the look up thing and compare the type of injector to other injectors that are the same configuration but larger flow rate. There must be a similar match...Most Nippon-Denso (I think that is what the 1.3 EFI is, maybe...) stuff is a blatant rip off of Bosch so don't be surprised if you end up with a Bosch/BMW injector or something. If it is Mitsubishi that means there will be lots of choice.

The problem with messing with the fuel pressure is that it might raise the stock injector above its optimum duty cycle. At that point it is pretty much wide open all the time - gets to be lots of tuning problems. End up with fuel pooling behind the intake valves or in the manifold. The solution is go with a larger injector.

If you add a cam or a header/exhaust you will probably need the larger injector - fuel pressure only won't cut it I'm guessing.

RC Engineering has lots of online info on this stuff. Check them out.

I doubt the TBI for the 1.6 is swap in without changing the entire harness/ECU/etc. I may be wrong but the 1.3 EFI set up I have on the shelf here is nothing like my buddies 1.6 TBI setup visually.

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 08-03-2001, 12:51 PM
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Re: 1.3EFI-->>1.6EFI swap

Oh, one other thing. The ECU will be oblivious to the new injector size. All it cares about is the O2 out the tail pipe when in closed feed back mode plus water temp and stuff...

As long as combustion is good the EFI will think it is still stock.

I have heard from a friend that a cam doesn't work well with this setup. His complaint was that the difference wasn't noticable. My guess is that he ran out of fuel flow. He got a big improvement with better header/exhaust but that probably maxed the injector. Just a wild assed guess.

Probably the same problem with the guys that had 16V cams made up.

EFI is relatively simple but you have to understand what it is doing to get it to work right with your setup.

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 08-03-2001, 01:12 PM
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Re: 1.3EFI-->>1.6EFI swap

"Where did you get that sprocket - or did you make it yourself?"

A friend is making them for us...we're waiting to get them dyno tuned, as soon as the local shop has the dyno up and running....but for right now they sure make a big differance, we have been just playing around with what works best for the 1.3, and 1.6's....they are still in the testing stage..he hasn't even gave me a price yet....

Dave

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post #10 of (permalink) Old 08-03-2001, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 1.3EFI-->>1.6EFI swap

RootMoose wrote:

>>Oh, one other thing. The ECU will be oblivious to the new injector size. All
>>it cares about is the O2 out the tail pipe when in closed feed back mode plus
>>water temp and stuff...

Yep, that's right. What I was trying to say was that ECU is factory programmed with some tolerance (called "Operating Tables" or so) in the other words it will accomodate to a certain degree the engine's increased thirst for fuel. The question is of course if the 1.3-->1.6 capacity increase will still fit the ECU's program. Probably not I'm afraid, but OTOH injector size increase should help in terms of the O2 sensor feedback.
In plain English:

1. bigger engine = bigger fuel consumption
but...
2. clean burning small engine O2 reading = clean burning bigger engine O2 reading (more or less)

So...if I can get the injector just the right size to make the O2 sensor happy, I'm laughing [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]. ECU will never know what amount of fuel is being burned; as long as the O2 readings are acceptable. I wonder if the 1.6's injector fits the 1.3 seat???? The TB itself is definitely different. Well, it's time for another junkyard visit....


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