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-   -   Dual T-cases (https://forums.off-road.com/suzuki-geo-all/79913-dual-t-cases.html)

Anton 07-22-2001 05:56 PM

Dual T-cases
 
I am now just about done my dual t case thing. Ive been working on this for approximatley 2.5 days. I have them both mounted in my zuk, there hooked up to the tranny, i just goto make a rear tranny mount, cut a hole for the shifter, fill them with oil and ill be done and ready to crawl. Does anyone know if thoes guys with the duaal cases(the green caged black zuk with 38's or the blue one with the flip front end) were using the stock rear drive shaft? The tcase was moved back a bit, as of now i dont know if ill be able to use my stock rear driveshaft, it could be too long.. Also can this setup be used on the street or highway? Brent, it is a ton of work, more than youd want to do probably. I had to get a spare frame, cut the cross member out on that, put a tranny and engine in the frame, mount everyting in there, do a ton of measurements.. And i still had to cut parts of the body off to get it in there. I also had to cut part of the stock tcase mounting arms off the frame.. Its a big job.. I goto finish this, find somone to tow (or maybe drive) my zuk for august long, put my front locker in, clean my carb then ill be set for rennie.
I didnt take any pix during this whole thing. Does anyone have more pix of thoes 2 trucks with the dual cases? (pix of the cases)


**DONOTDELETE** 07-22-2001 09:55 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
i tried to get some shots, but they had it all covered up so nobody could copy it or something. they are gonna sell a kit to install a second case.i was thinking of doing dual cases too but it sounds like a real P.I.T.A.!!

-Mitch
86 samurai
33"BFG, YJ rear 3"rears up front w/breeze droplinks, breeze crossover steering & track bar, DT shocks, locked f&R, 4.16 case, weber, header

Anton 07-22-2001 10:21 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
The blue one had skidplates covoring the t-cases but the green one didnt have anything on it.. I didnt like how the blue one was setup anyway, they didnt use a stock front driveshaft, it had 3 ujoints i think. The green one, i belive it used stock driveshafts, and the mounting looked simple enough.
The owneer of the blue one said he was going to sell the kits. Does anyone know their e-mail addresses?


RHINOGEAR 07-23-2001 12:41 AM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
So you used 2 Samurai t-cases ? did you know if you used a old LJ80 t-case for the front one it is a much easier swap because it is so much smaller and it's also a steel case. I think you can use your stock driveshaft too and it's lower gears than than a Samurai

Dedicated to the restoration and care of the North American Rhino

DannyL 07-23-2001 05:29 AM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here are a couple of pictures of that creature LJ-80+Sammy cases.........

DannyL
http://partszuki.homestead.com/files/A_zukin.jpg
http://www.partszuki.homestead.com

DannyL 07-23-2001 05:42 AM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
1 Attachment(s)

ackerdackerly 07-23-2001 08:09 AM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Anton:

I shot video of the blue flipnose's underside... all blocked by plates!

I suspect it is an LJ-80/SJ-413 combination as pictured by DannyL. There was too much rear driveshaft and the shifters looked just about right for the LJ-80 setup.

Ackerdackerly


JEEPN 07-23-2001 10:57 AM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
My question is how do you get the alignment correct. It seems that if they are just bolted together, and not aligned exactly right, you'll get premature wear on the bearings which will cause their premature failure. I have some ideas as well, but haven't gone any further due to lack of funds, and if I can't even get the damn thing to run right, there's no point in a lower crawl ratio.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled, It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
'88.5 Zuki, 5" Calmini, Locked, Swamped, Rolled, and just generally broken in right!

Anton 07-23-2001 01:33 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Danny are thoes your pictures or somone elses truck? I never seen pix of the LJ tcases, looks like it would work much better.. I dont know about the blue one but im pretty sure on the green one they used both samurai transfer cases. Do you know what the LJ tcases have for gearing?

JEEPN, i connected mine with a driveshaft spacer, so shouldnt that align it good enough if it works fine on you driveshafts?


JEEPN 07-23-2001 02:39 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
I wouldn't think that'd be good enough, if you have them connected (bolted) together, then maybe it would work. If they move independently of one another, it seems like you'd be putting uneven pressure on the bearings, which are designed for rotational movement. Needle bearings can handle angular loads to a certain extent, but I'd be concerned about just bolting the two together using the flanges.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but that's my take on it.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled, It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
'88.5 Zuki, 5" Calmini, Locked, Swamped, Rolled, and just generally broken in right!

wildweasel 07-23-2001 02:50 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
My two cents- The ones in the blue tilt-nose sami are stock t-cases, and there is a frame they bolt into so they are held together, as long as the flanges line up then they should last okay. Me I am just going to run a shaft with 2 ujoints from the tracker t-case to my sami case. then no worrys about the alignment. frankly I was unimpressed with the duel t-case set-up as it only had stock gears in them.
as such they where about the same gearing as I have now.
(4.16 and 4.62) Now if you arn'y geared down I am sure it will help. (Of course with a stock and 4.16 that would be more impressive.)

Glenn
87' Zook Spoa,M/L 33's, 4.16 tcase,4.62 gears Camo,Header,2"exhuast, Cam.
Lockers, 8klb winch, -Wildweasel2 NE4WI- club http://www.cs.umass.edu/~glenn/personal.html

Anton 07-23-2001 03:07 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
OK, the way i designed my bracketry, the 2 tcases are tied togeather with breackets, so it isnt just at the flanges.
Glenn, as i said this will give me over 5:1 low range, so thats more than a GRS 2, which is good for crawling with 33's.. And for 10 bucks of material i cant go wrong.


**DONOTDELETE** 07-23-2001 03:10 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
1 Attachment(s)
I worked in Hydraulics for awhile and we mounted pumps to motors all the time. In my experiece if you do not have the the shafts lined up nuts on, then bearing failure is going to happen. They make things called flex couplers that connect to the shafts and work like a ujoint. The thing about these is that it mount the components shaft to shaft with minamal about of wasted space. the other thing is that you can have them made costom. This would be expensive though. Just a idea from me.
http://www.magnaloy.com/Products/drive_couplings/
Jason

I Work to Wheel, because I wheel, I work.
http://www.geocities.com/zuk_tonka/zuk.html

wildweasel 07-23-2001 03:26 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Nothing wrong with it, you will only be a little higher than mine but hundreds cheaper! Not knocking it at the least.
(Just used to low gears allready.) (And want to go evan lower..) Isn't one of yours also an SJ410 case? If so then you will be a bit lower still. Good job. I will get you the pics tomorrow.

Glenn
87' Zook Spoa,M/L 33's, 4.16 tcase,4.62 gears Camo,Header,2"exhuast, Cam.
Lockers, 8klb winch, -Wildweasel2 NE4WI- club http://www.cs.umass.edu/~glenn/personal.html

**DONOTDELETE** 07-23-2001 03:32 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Anton,

Check your Princess Auto catalog, they have flex couplers in there. They might be okay for offroad use, but I don't think they would work well for street and highway use.

Walter


**DONOTDELETE** 07-23-2001 03:37 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
They will work depending on size, 250 hp 3600 rpm it is worth a look.

I Work to Wheel, because I wheel, I work.
http://www.geocities.com/zuk_tonka/zuk.html

Anton 07-23-2001 03:55 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Walter where are you located?


Yankee Tim 07-23-2001 03:56 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
JEEPN,

Don't be so bashful.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

You're crawl ratio is soooo loooowwwww right now that you don't even see it move![img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] I think it works out to 1,238,993,664,823,748,287,368,768,723,081,928,346, 101.847:1, or very close to it. Heck, and from what I've been reading, it looks like it takes quite a while just to burn a tankful of gas!

Glad you have a sense of humour. Don't get bummed out by the Zook. She will grow on you and her heart will open and let you in as her beloved. Once that happens, you'll only need to backslap the lil' b!tch once in a while to keep her running the straight and narrow.

Just dont' let her get mixed up with those delinquent Jeep punks. I've seen too many wholesome Zooks turn to a life of grime after hanging out with those scallywags.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] If she starts down that road, be sure to send her to Yankee Tim's Boarding School for Wayward Samurais.

<font color=blue>Yankee Tim</font color=blue>[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

**DONOTDELETE** 07-23-2001 05:53 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Anton, that's Walter from our club. Nice to see you finally chirp in with us Walter. Hopefully you'll frequent this site more often and shed some knowledge taking up space in that brain of yours. Everyone else on this BBS be careful. Walter has a tendency to buy anything and everything that he sees for sale. Wether he'll ever use it or not doesn't matter LOL.


Anton 07-23-2001 06:12 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Oh ok.. Sortof thought so.
Walter, do you ever plan to pick up the toyota frame? What are you planning to do for august long weekend, becuase im in need of somone to drive my zuk there or tow it or somthing.


Alfred 07-23-2001 07:27 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
JEEPN,

i am currently putting a TDiesel into my blue CJ6-alike...

and we plan on mating the Dana18 transfer DIVORCED behind the stock tranny/transfer combo...

this means the D18 would be closed by a flange (to be stand-alone) and there would be a short driveshaft going from the rear of the Mazda-transfer into the D18...

how does that sound to you? do you have any ideas if this would work?

thx
alfred

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ford-J...signature4.jpg

**DONOTDELETE** 07-23-2001 10:35 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Walter will own ALL the Zooks in Canada soon....lol

Manitoba Trail Masters
Brent


JEEPN 07-23-2001 10:37 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
JHS is right about the alignment. I am a pump expert and have seen many failures on direct coupling and belt driven pumps, 75% of the time the failure is due to improper alignment, 20% of the time it's overlubrication, and 5% of the time it's other smaller factors. The alignment MUST be in all 3 axis, not just one, and not just "close". Once aligned properly, the bearings are expected to last, with proper lubrication, over one million hours. Improper alignment and improper lubrication are the two most common failures I see in my field. On the less critical items, it's OK to get them close, like within 0.020", but on the more critical pieces of equipment we use laser alignment devices.

If the couplings are mounted to the same frame, then proper alignment is more likely.

The flexible couplings will work and are a good idea, but they are not designed for high RPM applications, typically not over 3,600 rpm's, which is what most electric motors use. There are several different coupling designs available, with fixed and removeable flexible bellows, but none that will really work. I looked into them for a tranny swap, but came up empty. I'm going to design my own subframe and use it for the tranny swap later on, I know how to align the couplings, but it ain't gonna be easy for use long term. U-joints are a good way, keep in mind you have to use 2 of them so they'll self cancel, or you can use a CV shaft.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled, It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
'88.5 Zuki, 5" Calmini, Locked, Swamped, Rolled, and just generally broken in right!

**DONOTDELETE** 07-23-2001 10:38 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Walter will soon own ALL the ZOOKS in Canada.....lol

Manitoba Trail Masters
Brent


**DONOTDELETE** 07-23-2001 10:44 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Damn thing is acting up again

Manitoba Trail Masters
Brent


**DONOTDELETE** 07-25-2001 10:44 AM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
up on top for the new guy again

I Work to Wheel, because I wheel, I work.
http://www.geocities.com/zuk_tonka/zuk.html

Bill4rest 07-25-2001 08:21 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Where's your pics anton????

Bill Forrest!!............Off-Road Champion.
http://www.geocities.com/zukybill/index.html

Anton 07-25-2001 08:31 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Bill4rest check your e-mail.


longzuk 07-27-2001 10:17 AM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Anton you gunna be ready for next weekend. I don't know if i will be or not. Lots of little crap to do.


Sean

SIZE DOES MATTER 85 LWB 31'S LINCOLN LOCKER RR,CTR FORCE DUAL FRICTION, CUSTOM BUMBERS & GAS TANK PLATE, SPOA BOBBED 6 INCHES CUSTOM SPORT CAP

Anton 07-29-2001 01:55 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
Sean, i will be ready, im mostley done. theres just a few other little things i goto do before.
Im pretty much done the dual tcase thing, IT IS LOW!! With 33's, both in low range i can drive around in 5th that i could easily do in 1st before.. so now i can jsut crawl in 1st. I got my lockright in the fornt axle, rennie should be a breeze. a small list of things i would like to/have to do before august longw weekend.
fill tcases with oil.
change oil in diffs and tranny
change oil in engine
put in CB
beef up rear bumper mounts
rocker panel protection..
If i have time i would like to make a skidplate for my tcases(they hang a bit lower now), and make some protection for the pumkins
Im also going to mount long shocks on the rear.. when i lifted the truck up on the hoise (lifing on the frame), there was plenty of front travel but in the rear my expading shackles didnt even open.
for whoever was asking, i used my stock driveshafts.
Sean what all do you goto do to finish your zuk?


longzuk 07-30-2001 10:21 AM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
besides everything. Ive gotta change the clutch make new front lower shock mounts, new rear mounts both upper and lower, move the rear spring perches forward, and reattach my front bumber. than i have to by my shocks all the way around. I also have to weld the new seats to my fame so they don't slide around.

SIZE DOES MATTER 85 LWB 31'S LINCOLN LOCKER RR,CTR FORCE DUAL FRICTION, CUSTOM BUMBERS & GAS TANK PLATE, SPOA BOBBED 6 INCHES CUSTOM SPORT CAP

Anton 08-02-2001 09:10 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
So Sean, got your truck ready for the weekend? Mine sure is.
I blew my clutch at Ross on Tuesday.. going down a hill with extremely low gearing.. Clutch flew apart.. I even knew that would happen and was avoiding that but must have left it in gear. Pulled the motor later taht day, put it back in with a new clutch on wendsday. all done now, ready to hit the trails.



smitty808 08-02-2001 11:30 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
I found this pic on the Pirate 4x4 BBS. It's a kit that mounts the dual Toyota t-case to the Sammy. I'm not sure who is fabbing it, but this pic is of the first one they built for testing. The way they talked, it should be up and running by now. They have plans to sell the kit. I'll keep you updated if I hear anything else about it.

C'mon Anton....Let's see those pics!!!!!

[email protected]
http://www.angelfire.com/in3/smitty808

smitty808 08-02-2001 11:32 PM

Re: Dual T-cases
 
1 Attachment(s)
I found this pic on the Pirate 4x4 BBS. It's a kit that mounts the dual Toyota t-case to the Sammy. I'm not sure who is fabbing it, but this pic is of the first one they built for testing. The way they talked, it should be up and running by now. They have plans to sell the kit. I'll keep you updated if I hear anything else about it.

C'mon Anton....Let's see those pics!!!!!

[email protected]
http://www.angelfire.com/in3/smitty808


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