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post #1 of (permalink) Old 01-30-2001, 05:33 PM
zukiman
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YJ Shackle Reversal is just awesome!

I know this subject's been just about beat to death, but I just had to say how shocked I am with how great this Canyon State kit has worked out on my Zuk. I'm not finished with the suspension yet (no bumpstops, incorrect shock lengths, unmassaged fenderwells) but I've ramped it and gone tearing down some washed out dirt roads at positively terrifying speeds, and I can't believe how soft and flexible these Jeep Wrangler YJ springs are! And let me put to rest any fears about scary handling and braking from the Shackle Reversal; this kit has none of the problems that another Samurai Shackle Reversal kit has.

I've gained about 1.5 inches of lift over my old suspension height, which was about 2.5 inches over a standard SPOA with stock springs. My wheelbase has also increased 2.5 inches to 82.5 inches on level ground. In front, I have as much wheel travel with the YJ springs and without Missing Links as my old rear Rancho springs up front with Missing Links could provide. And in back, I have all the flex of the YJ's in addition to the travel provided by the rear Missing Links! Although my old Rancho and CJ spring setup flexed really well, this puts it to shame. I haven't opened up any spring clamps yet either! And as I said, my shocks are wayyy too short.

We haven't measured the total articulation yet, but it's looking like an easy 40 inches. And with my Rancho 9000 shocks adjusted to their softest setting, it literally rides like a Cadillac. Not bad for a bolt-on kit! Look for Off-Road.com's product review of the kit in an upcoming issue. For more info and for where to buy the kit, check out these vendors:

http://www.CanyonStateComponents.com
http://www.AsianAutoPartsOfAZ.com
http://www.Rocky-Road.com

--Geoff Beasley
Suzuki Tech Editor: http://www.Off-Road.com

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 01-30-2001, 06:10 PM
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Re: YJ Shackle Reversal is just awesome!

zukiman, Sounds Great !
Please tell us more about on pavement handling - turning radius/body roll/etc - compared to a stock Sami .
Is it close to as "nimble" on or off road ?
How much did you pay for your kit ?


post #3 of (permalink) Old 01-30-2001, 06:29 PM
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Re: YJ Shackle Reversal is just awesome!

Ok, this sounds completely awesome, but brings up a question. Ive been contemplating swapping toy axles under my Tracker, I wonder if its possible that I could get this same setup under it since its all going to be custom anyways. Any thoughts? (ill make this a normal post later)

Justin
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 01-30-2001, 06:37 PM
 
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Re: YJ Shackle Reversal is just awesome!

Geoff this is not a dead horse at all, I just got my yj springs today because i read about your baja experience with dave. I am thinking about cj springs up front and keeping my ML's on. I was also going to fab out the rear, but it sounds like the advantage comes from it being a shackle reversal. How did you extend your drive line? Where is the welding done? Did you weld on the front or just bolt it on? Thanks for the input, this is fascinating to many of us. Max

Just one more of the elite Samurai![img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] External cage on a hardtop, x8ki wrn winch, M/L's,pny crb,98amp alt,32's, lckd f/r,
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 01-30-2001, 08:18 PM
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Re: YJ Shackle Reversal is just awesome!

Wow, a lot of questions! I'll see if I can address them all. If I miss anything, hopefully Dave from AAPA or Fred from Canyon State can pipe up.

Pavement handling: Overall, with any tall vehicle on soft springs and no anti-sway bars, weight transfer (corner lean, brake dive, and acceleration squat) is pronounced. A stock Samurai has stiff springs and a sway bar, so it corners very flatly. This suspension is quite different. It is for this reason that Canyon State (and I, from my experience) recommends using Rancho RS-9000 adjustable shocks. That way, you can have an ultra-smooth ride over high-speed rough dirt roads AND have good body motion control on-road and while rockcrawling. Although body motion is pronounced with the shocks set to their softest setting, there aren't any surprises with the handling. It corners smoothly and predictably, and stomping the brakes doesn't scare me like other Shackle-Reversed Samurais do.

The turning radius is actually improved, not only because there's no need for a panhard bar, but also because the pinion is lowered, causing the tires to "lean" as they turn and really crank the front of the truck around tightly. If I had any less than 2-inch backspaced wheels, the tires would rub on the springs when fully turned. That 2-inch backspacing has also reduced steering effort when stopped, because the tires "roll" more when they turn, instead of "scrubbing" the pavement and fighting the steering. Parallel parking will be even easier.

Off-road handling: Obviously, the soft and flexy springs are a boon. The body stays very flat when climbing one tire over a rock or ramping the truck to measure RTI. Also, while driving up against a tall vertical face the tire will move rearward as it climbs the rock, reducing drivetrain stress. The approach angle is simply awesome. Don't confuse this kit with others on the market. No "Fangs" to hang up on rocks.

On rough, washed-out dirt roads, you don't have to worry about slowing down; drive like it's paved! [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] The soft spring rate and trailing shackles front and rear really make for a smooth ride over bumps. It's a night-and-day improvement.

Toyota axles under a Tracker: With enough money, anything's possible. [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] This kit is designed to bolt onto a Samurai's frame, so I don't think it's right for this application. I would recommend a YJ spring conversion though; it's a lot cheaper and easier than a coil spring setup.

Driveline solution: Although a rear driveshaft will work fine, a stock front driveshaft doesn't have a chance at working, even with extended slip yokes. I'm using a 1-inch extended slip yoke (from Trail Tough) in back, and I might switch to my 2-inch slip yoke, but for the front you have to get a new driveshaft to address three problems. First of all, the stock U-joints will bind up from the amount of axle travel these springs provide. Secondly is the long spline travel that is necessary. The stock 3 inches is nowhere near enough. Lastly, with this much droop, a stock-thickness driveshaft will hit the frame crossmember. To address these problems, I bought a custom driveshaft (which AAPA and Canyon State can supply) that has 10 inches of travel, Spicer 1310 U-joints, clearanced yokes, and a narrow splined section to allow more than enough room at the crossmember for full axle droop.

Welding?: Nope. This is a bolt-on kit. It was designed to work with most aftermarket bumpers, too. Fred (from Canyon State) has an ARB bumper on his, and I have a Wheeler's Off-Road bumper on mine. You can either move the bumper forward a few inches like Fred (which also allows room for a larger winch) or you can keep your bumper in the stock location like I did. It mostly depends on how the bumper is designed to bolt to the frame.

Whew! I hope this answered everyone's questions! I'm sure the vendors can help with any other questions, or you can wait for my product review of the kit in an upcoming issue of Off-Road.com.

--Geoff Beasley
Suzuki Tech Editor: http://www.Off-Road.com

post #6 of (permalink) Old 01-30-2001, 08:34 PM
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Re: YJ Shackle Reversal is just awesome!

Max, did you get the E-mail I sent you? I had a shorter main leaf made up and added it to the FRONT Wrangler spring pack. The eyelet ends are tapered to 2" and it works with my existing missing link set-up. I did not get a chance to try them out yet, but they seem like they will work better then my Ranchos. I am going with full length Wranglers in the rear using Canyon States kit. Just need 2 more springs...

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 01-30-2001, 10:16 PM
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Re: YJ Shackle Reversal is just awesome!

I'm doing a Toyota Axle swap now and was looking at getting this kit to help fit my 16x35 Boggers! I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, I want this kit NOW but will not have the cash till the Gov. returns my $$$! One Question for you guys that have this on you rig now, will I need lifted J**P springs to fit 35" tires? I think I do, even with my 3" body lift? What do you think? Glad to see that everything is working out for ya Geoff! Can't wait for your review on this system!

<font color=blue>Brian</font color=blue> [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img] <font color=blue>THE ULTIMATE ZUK</font color=blue>
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 01-30-2001, 10:34 PM
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Re: YJ Shackle Reversal is just awesome!

zukiman , thanks for the all info - very throrough - sounds like the Ticket ! Now I'm glad I haven't already wasted money/time on something else.
However I would like to know how much YOU paid for YOUR kit - as I much prefer unbiased opinions.


post #9 of (permalink) Old 01-30-2001, 10:38 PM
 
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Re: YJ Shackle Reversal is just awesome!

Zooky, Yes i recieved your update last week. I dont think that doing that taper job to keep the ML's is going to give you the benifit of what this shackle reverse does, but im glad you did it so we can make an east coast comparison. I am real curious as to how this really works, but the front drive shaft mod is something that seems sketchy. You do this kit and your forced to do a 200$ drive shaft i think (not sure what the $ is off hand) If you add this kit up, its 800$ and thats a bit steep. Im going to have to fab something here. I know you could get two spring sets from a yard close to me, they want 25$ a pack. Did you get your rear end set up even though you dont have the springs? By the way is the 350$ for both front and rear set up or is it just the front shackle reverse? Hows your newborn coming along? She is what 4 months old now? Jeez time is flying.

Just one more of the elite Samurai![img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] External cage on a hardtop, x8ki wrn winch, M/L's,pny crb,98amp alt,32's, lckd f/r,
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 01-30-2001, 10:48 PM
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Re: YJ Shackle Reversal is just awesome!

Darn it !!! I ordered the rear kit already, and now I already want the front too. The only thing stopping me is that $300 driveshaft. Is that the absolute only solution? I guess i could try to make my own. I'm Stuck I guess that $300 is $300 i wouldn't have to spend on a much needed panhard kit. Just thinking out loud.

-Ryan Primel
'88 zuk, 1.6L, spoa, drop-links, grs1, 32's, Locked & Warned
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