anti-lock brakes & tire size - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups
Suzuki GEO All Discussion of all things, Suzuki and GEO

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of (permalink) Old 01-27-2001, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 151
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
anti-lock brakes & tire size

Would the use of larger diameter tires negatively affect the 4 door anti-lock brake system in a tracker/sidekick? (Type VI abs speed sensors calibrated for a certain diameter tire)

Soloman
soloman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of (permalink) Old 01-28-2001, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 151
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: anti-lock brakes & tire size

anyone?

Soloman
soloman is offline  
post #3 of (permalink) Old 01-28-2001, 10:06 PM
I Do This For The Glory
 
JEEPN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Nobleboro, Maine
Posts: 7,958
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: anti-lock brakes & tire size

I can't speak for the Zuki's, but it hasn't affected the TJ or the Trooper of ours.

I don't think it will, and this is why:

By changing your tire size, you're affecting how much the sensor reads, which matters very little. What the sensor reads is whether the wheel is turning or not. On the TJ, we have "tone rings" which do the same thing. So when you change tire size, say from 215's to 31's, you're throwing off the speedo as well. The ABS sensor should still work the same way, by sensing movement. What it will change is the lower end speed, at which time the ABS no longer works, on the TJ it's at about 5 mph. So instead of the ABS shutting off at 5 mph, it may shot off at 9 or 10 mph, but above that it should still work fine.

This is just speculation though, I am no ABS expert, just offering a sound theory.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
JEEPN is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of (permalink) Old 01-28-2001, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 151
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: anti-lock brakes & tire size

That sounds sensible.

My thought is that the sensors are able to keep individual wheels from locking up by sensing differences in the speed of individual wheels. If the diameter of all wheels are increased there should be no great problem. Also, I don't think the low speed shut off will change that much. 10-15% change in speed difference at that low speed is not much.

Soloman
soloman is offline  
post #5 of (permalink) Old 01-28-2001, 11:07 PM
Old Hand
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: austin, tx
Posts: 702
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: anti-lock brakes & tire size

JEEPN, Anytime I have a "tech" question I am now expecting you to answer it Also, I saw a picture of your rig on the SWB picture post site, and that thing is a beast. It's nice to see a well built CJ8. They are about as common as a Samurai around here, few and far between.

-Ryan Primel
'88 zuk, 1.6L, spoa, drop-links, grs1, 32's, Locked & Warned
ZuksRule is offline  
post #6 of (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 08:12 AM
I Do This For The Glory
 
JEEPN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Nobleboro, Maine
Posts: 7,958
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: anti-lock brakes & tire size

Thanks, but that was before I built it, or should say, tore it apart. It's even more of a beast now, but I kept that huge powerplant (2.5L 4 cyl) because it runs so well and has power for everything except the highway and deep mud. I can't wait to get a Zuk, they're a lot of fun, and it'll be nice having 2 extremes. The Scrambler will weigh in excess of 4,000 lbs, and it's built to withstand a bomb being dropped on it (right down to the 3/8" thick body mounts, and 1/8" diamondplated bed and cab). I'm going to throw a 350 in it when I get the $$$ and some time, but just need to get it back together for now.

<font color=blue>
My thought is that the sensors are able to keep individual wheels from locking up by sensing differences in the speed of individual wheels. If the diameter of all wheels are increased there should be no great problem. </font color=blue>

I think that's more like the electronic Limited Slip System that's out now. It senses differences in wheel speed and adjusts the brakes to equalize them. So if one side is on ice, and spinning wildly, the brakes are applied which shifts power to the side that isn't spinning. Mercedes and a few other rigs have this, not sure about the Zuki's. I did the same thing on the Scrambler by using 2 emergency brakes, one on each wheel. I'd twist up and go nowhere, lock the spinning side, and the other side would get power, so I'd go again. It only works on the rear end, but it also only cost me $15 to install.

I think the system does do what you describe in the way of ABS, but only to the degree of the tire not turning, not the difference in wheel speed, but I could be wrong.

I love having ABS on a rig, it's awesome. Most of the time it can be disabled for wheeling by removing a fuse as well, but I have never seen the need, at slower speeds it doesn't work anyway. The ABS on our Jeep has saved it twice now from an accident, and it's nice this time of year on the snow and ice.

As far as the Tech stuff goes, I don't even own a Zuk (yet!), but will try to help when I can and if I can, you guys are great.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
JEEPN is offline  
post #7 of (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 08:25 AM
Keyboard Implanted
 
Yankee Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Northern Catskill Mountains, NY
Posts: 4,756
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: anti-lock brakes & tire size

JEEPN,

FWIW, the ABS on my GV goes of at any speed, including speeds so slow that the speedo doesn't move (less than 5 MPH). Strange, huh?

<font color=blue>Yankee Tim</font color=blue>[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
Yankee Tim is offline  
post #8 of (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 08:59 AM
I Do This For The Glory
 
JEEPN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Nobleboro, Maine
Posts: 7,958
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: anti-lock brakes & tire size

Boy, I wonder why? I know it's ABS and all, but at less than 5 mph? That's what the bumper is for.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
JEEPN is offline  
post #9 of (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 09:17 AM
Keyboard Implanted
 
Yankee Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Northern Catskill Mountains, NY
Posts: 4,756
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: anti-lock brakes & tire size

Yeah, and it's quite annoying. I'm going to put an shut-off switch in for off-roading.

Bumper? No that's installed to make money for body shops when you crush it while bumping a shopping cart in the parking lot. Oh, and it provided a place to mount the optional fog light$.

<font color=blue>Yankee Tim</font color=blue>[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
Yankee Tim is offline  
post #10 of (permalink) Old 01-29-2001, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 151
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: anti-lock brakes & tire size



<<I think the system does do what you describe in the way of ABS, but only to the degree of the tire not turning, not the difference in wheel speed, but I could be wrong.>>

JEEPN,
Yes, that is what I mean. The sensor is supposed to release the brake, somewhat, when it senses that the brake is locking up. On a Tracker, the front two wheels are sensed individually and the rear drive train has a single sensor.

I think a ABS on/off switch would be just the ticket for off-roading. With the ice we have been having this winter, the abs has been really beneficial on the road. Don't want to do away with it all together. However, this is the first vehicle I have ever had with ABS, and I did do okay before abs (except once when I was young and foolish in the snow & ice).



Soloman
soloman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome