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post #1 of (permalink) Old 08-13-2000, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Opinion

Whats the difference between shackle reversal and just plain ol shackle lift?Does the reversal affect strength anywhere?

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 08-14-2000, 09:18 AM
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Re: Opinion


The S/R is sort of a hype item now. It does not increase articulation. It can help smooth mildly bumpy dirt roads.

Be careful with them though. You will never see a short wheelbase vehicle from the factory with the shackles placed in a reverse position. If it was as simple as a smoother ride, all SWB vehicles would come this way from the factory (Wrangler, CJ, Samurai, FJ40, Patrol, ect). There is a safety and stability factor by having the shackles up front though on the highway at driving speeds. We have many folks who contact us and are removing their S/R kits from both Suzukis and from Jeeps and Samurais because they are unhappy with the system. Basically, mucho hype, no 'delivery'.


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post #3 of (permalink) Old 08-14-2000, 09:29 AM
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Re: Opinion

Mudslide,
A shackle lift is basically just longer shackles, where a shackle reversal is
where the shackle location is changed. You place the shackles on the opposite end of the spring.
I had a CJ7 that I lifted 4' inches with springs and I later installed a shackle reversal setup because the jeep wandered on the road. The reason it
wandered was because the lift springs changed the castor angle a great deal.
I tried to correct this first by placing caster wedges between the springs and
spring perches. It helped a little but not enough. The shackle reversal changes
the castor angle and did restore the castor angle to the correct castor spec. on my CJ7. My Sami does not wander like my jeep, but I lifted my zuk by doing a
SPOA lift. The castor angle does not change by performing a SPOA lift if done correctly.
Wayne

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 08-14-2000, 03:35 PM
 
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Re: Opinion

I am almost certain that some of the old military jeeps came with the front shackles "reversed". I believe the only reason the setup was changed was because of a change in companies that supplied the steering setups. Older Toyota trucks came with the front shackles "reversed" also, I wouldn't say they had an extremely long wheelbase. IMO comparing a 2" lift shackle reverse (we know Glenn is talking about Calminis kit)to a 2" shackle lift, the shackle reverse wins hands down.

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 08-14-2000, 03:49 PM
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Re: Opinion

Your correct, I believe it was the M38A that came from the factory with the shackles reversed.
Toyota's were that way along with Chevy, GMC and Ford trucks, not sure about
the old Dodges.
Wayne

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 08-14-2000, 04:16 PM
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Re: Opinion

Yes, it was the M38A1's (Military CJ-5's) that used the factory shackle reversal, and some early CJ's can be found this way as well, although there doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason behind the sporadic factory swaps.

I thought of doing the shackle reversal, but after talking to people that had done them, decided against it. It does help on the road handling, but in a really Short Wheelbase rig (like Zuki's), it won't help much. I have also seen a lot of damage result from the wheel pushing back into the wheelwell, and know of a few people building jeeps with the front axle 3" forward of its stock location to compensate.

Shackle lifts are fine, in moderation, too much and they'll hinder performance and lead to other driveline problems.

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 08-15-2000, 01:34 PM
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Re: Opinion

Nice to see that people are finally "getting" the fact that SRs are mainly hype. They do work for some people in some applications, but I don't see much use for them on a SWB vehicle that sees a lot of trail time. A couple things to add to what has been already said: They can cause nose dive during hard braking, and they also reduce contact pressure against obstacles. The other problem with them moving the wheel/axle backwards is not just the fender clearance, but also driveshaft length. To add to the list of stock SR, Toyota pick-ups came from the factory like this, but they also have very short shackles that would probably hit the frame before creating bad nose dive or any other problems (thus reducing articulation in the process). SRs are not worth the time, effort or money IMHO.

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 08-15-2000, 04:04 PM
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Re: Opinion

Hype!! There sure is plenty of it around, on both side of the argument. I must ask all of you, how many of you have owned a rig with the Calmini set-up?

Alot to the negative things said about the Calmini S/R are hype also. I own a S/R rig, and I love it. I put 125K highway miles on my 94, most of which were on the bone-jarring, pothole-ridden highways in and around NYC. The S/R made a night and day difference in handling and ride comfort. It is the best thing I've done in the name of improved ride.

Is it safe? I've never experience any nose dive greater that in it's stock config. If you want to talk unsafe nose dive, I was behind a M/L set up when it made a panic stop. I watched the M/L expand and allow the body to lift up, exerting weight onto the front. I found that to be kinda scary. But hey, they should be used ONLY off-road, right?

I've driven my S/R rig many places. I've even drove it from NY to Moab and back. I never had a problem with it, even during the hardest of stops.

As for performance, I rode the Spider Mesa/Golden Spike/Gold Bar Rim trail with many other SpOA rigs, including Doug Kelsey (Keltec) and the one-and-only Figmo. I avoided the go arounds. I traversed the difficult obstacles, I went wherever te SpOA rigs went, and without a problem. So much for the Calmini set-up being a poor choice for the trail. It was just as capable. All of that without welding.

As for the tire/wheelwell problem, I find that happens most often with those who failed to install the bumpstop extensions. Also, the early design did have this problem, but moving the axle forward 1" with the new design really helped.

Now, I don't use the full bumpstop extensions as recommended by Calmini, as I wanted the most flex. A simple 2" body lift and I now have more flex than it should, without the rubbing. There are several things that can be done to greatly improve the flex on the Calmini set-up, and if you want to know, email me and I'll be happy to share.

Is the Calmini the ultimate set up? No, but neither is the SpOA. Both have pro's and con's, and when truely measured up to each other, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Calmini is a very good company and make wonderful product, especially for those without a welder friend or a MIG in the garage. To make you all wonder, Calmini has a lot in store for us in the near future. Things that will make you take a second look at the largest Suzuki aftermarket manufacturer. Stay tuned.

To everyone else, avoid the HYPE. And also avoid the SCARE TACTICS.

Enuff said. Play nice.

Yankee Tim

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 08-15-2000, 05:23 PM
 
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Re: Opinion

im with ya tim...
ive had my shackle reverse installed for 2 months now, and have no bad feelings about it at all
it does exactly what it says it will do, and if you use the tires Calmini suggests, then you wont have any tire rubbing
it was easy to install (i did it in my garage by myself in about 4 hours)

break dive is no worse than it was in stock config, and handling is improved remarkably

tim said it all in his post
aviod the scare tactics that seem to keep coming up whenever Calmini is mentioned.... they are definatly the best aftermarket suzuki supplier that ive delt with, and ive pretty much delt with them all


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post #10 of (permalink) Old 08-16-2000, 08:16 AM
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Re: Opinion

Amen, brother.

Yankee Tim

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