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post #1 of (permalink) Old 12-30-2003, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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SJ410 Clutch Question - SJ410 gurus??

I recently purchased a clutch set for my SJ410, but the Throwout bearing is not the same.

On the TO that came out of the tranny, the bearing is physically attached to a 'collar' (if I am describing it right, it is the shift fork collar, with the small clips that hold the fork to the TO bearing?!?!).

Anyway, on the new TO bearing, it's just the bearing itself, with no collar, basically almost the identical on each side. It physically matches the size of the old TO bearing, but doesn't have the collar. The place I dealt with on this clutch set (a reputable Zuki shop, but they hadn't seen too many SJ410s), really wasn't sure what to make of it. They said I can press the collar off the old bearing and put it on the new one, but it doesn't look like that is possible.

I can always take it back and tell them to try again, but before I do that, have any of you SJ410 gurus seen anything like this?? (It's a 1984 SJ410, if that helps)

Scratching my head in Colorado...


Jeff
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 12-30-2003, 11:47 PM
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Re: SJ410 Clutch Question - SJ410 gurus??

This is almost funny, I just bought a bearing off Ebay the same way, no collar on it just a basically plain bearing . The diameter looks correct , but right now I can't find one of the old bearings to check it against for fit . I don't remember that collar being removable , although I'm sure it is one way or another . I really wouldn't feel all that great about having to press the collar on and off another bearing, this can greatly compromise the bearings themselves . Not to mention , doesn't really help the issue of wear on the collar, either . I gotta find that other bearing , I know I saved it somewhere around here ....
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 12-31-2003, 01:26 PM
 
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Re: SJ410 Clutch Question - SJ410 gurus??

The 410 tranny and clutch are completly different than the Sami. Different plate (spline dia and overal dia),
different TO bearing and carrier, different pilot bearing (open needle bearings and separate seal) and of
course the 4 speed instead of the 5 (The output yoke and seals are different and are total orphans).

The TO bearing does come off the sleeve as I recall, (this was almost 4 years ago) and doesn't take much
pressure. While I wouldn't want to press one off and re-use it, the pressure to install one is in the same
direction needed to actuate the clutch, so it shouldn't be too hard on the bearing.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 12-31-2003, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: SJ410 Clutch Question - SJ410 gurus??

Thanks for the clarification. I was aware of the physical dimension differences, I was just thrown for a loop with the set up of the 'old' TO bearing versus what I was given. I am worried that I will bugger up the old collar trying to remove it and then won't be able to get a replacement. Is that something to worry about, or is the whole TO Bearing AND collar available as a unit to buy?????
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 01-01-2004, 11:36 AM
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Re: SJ410 Clutch Question - SJ410 gurus??

The FSM isn't explicit but refers to removing the clutch release bearing attached to the retainer. It has has a small section 'Clutch Release Bearing Retainer'
Quote:
Before installing the retainer, apply Suzuki Super Grease 'A' to its inner surface.
End Quote
Ther's also a pic too, it all implies that the retainer is a seperate part. Incidentally over here post 85 models came with a 5 speed gearbox.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 01-01-2004, 11:56 AM
 
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Re: SJ410 Clutch Question - SJ410 gurus??

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Incidentally over here post 85 models came with a 5 speed
gearbox.

[/ QUOTE ]

James, are those 5 speeds on 1 or 1.3 L motors? If 1L, do the trannies interchange with the earlier 1L blocks
or did they change the block to the 1.3 bell housing bolt pattern? What 5th gear ratio did they use?
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 01-01-2004, 11:42 PM
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Re: SJ410 Clutch Question - SJ410 gurus??

Evidently, this bearing I got off Ebay is for a 410/413 , it's and NSK 48TKA3211B UN3S . The Koyo #RCTS338SA4 is what the Sami had in it , this is the one with the collar and head that the throwout clutch arm fits to actuate the bearing . The NSK is just a plain face type bearing , might fit onto the collar or something , but the inside daimeter is too small for the Sami trans tube . Guess I gotta email this dude and tell 'em the bad news ....rats.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ME:B:EOAB:US:6
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 01-02-2004, 12:37 PM
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Re: SJ410 Clutch Question - SJ410 gurus??

Its a 410 box you can interchange it with the earlier box. You need to get the right one to suit the input shaft you have on your existing box. Some have a long input shaft with the bearing in the crank and some have a shorter shaft with the bearing in the flywheel. The 5 speed I have to hand has a short shaft and the FSM I have shows a short shaft also. I seem to recall my 84 410 has a long shaft. The lower 4 ratios are unchanged:
Top = 0.79
4th = 1.0
3rd = 1.42
2nd = 1.95
1st = 3.16

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 01-03-2004, 01:39 AM
 
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Re: SJ410 Clutch Question - SJ410 gurus??

James, Your probably the guy that can answer this for me. I know Hawk converts certain (85?) 4 speeds
to 5 speeds. I'm guessing that taking the 2 main bell housing cases and puting the guts of a 5 speed, and
using the 5 speed tail housing should work. Possibly swaping the input shaft to correct for the pilot or
changing to the flywheel mounted pilot would complete it. Am I on the right track?

Would this work using an 84 case? Could it be done with the later post 88 (lower 5th gear) guts and tail
housing? What do you think?

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post #10 of (permalink) Old 01-03-2004, 01:00 PM
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Re: SJ410 Clutch Question - SJ410 gurus??

I would think that would work but I've never had the boxes apart and don't have an FSM for a 5sp model. Comparing the two boxes from the outside it certainly looks like thats the way Suzuki did it. You may not need all the 5sp internals, the first four ratios are the same so it may just need the fifth gear parts. I may know a man who knows this, he would certainly have a wide collection of boxes to examine. As I recall the longer input shaft could simply be cut down to fit the bearing in the flywheel type. I haven't fitted the 5sp box to mine as I needed to sort the shaft length out and as it'll be a trailer queen for a while its not really needed. I wonder if it shares any cogs with the 413 as the ratios seem to be mainly the same but the 410 has a lower first.
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