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post #1 of (permalink) Old 10-08-2003, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
 
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16 valve OR 4.3L.....second thoughts...

Who would have thought.... after a while of playing with the 4.3L swap and no really problems yet, I'm actually thinking of passing on it and moving into the 16 valve class. [img]images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] I haven't got everything I need yet for the 4.3L swap, and I now realize that price-wise, it is going to get really expensive. Maybe more so than I'm willing to pay. Guess I just want everyone's help on what to do here. Here's the situation regarding each engine option:

4.3L engine option
Ok, I already have the engine, tranny and transfer case. The transfer case (NP241) has already been rebuilt and has a SLE on it. I can easily sell this case and recover part of the cost. The engine would be rebuilt (whether needed or not) and the tranny not. Price of rebuilding the engine is up there not to mention the overbore, new pistons, and performance cam. Also, will have the PCM reprogrammed.

Along these lines, I have the harness (about $350: BTW, all prices in US funds) but can return it, and a Mustang rad. I would use this rad in either the 4.3L or 16 valve, so no loss there.
Still needed for the 4.3L are: clutch, flywheel, hydraulic clutch components, accel. cable, custom exhaust, cutting the driveshafts, NEW aftermarket dash gauges, interior wiring harness, dash work, tranny shifter if this one can't be made to work, etc. etc. etc.... the list goes ON! [img]images/graemlins/cussing.gif[/img] You get the idea. OK, so I should have thought of this earlier but the allure of driving a Chevy V6 got me [img]images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] I know, I know....

1.6L 16 Valve
Now, I have the tranny and transfer case so no cost. Would probably want to rebuild both though and replace the clutch. Would need a 16 valve engine, wiring harness, and 1.6L kit. Funny cuz I had a lot of the parts with my old 8 valve 1.6 and sold them all, almost new! LOL Live and learn (I've been doing a lot of that lately). I have Toy driveshafts and axles already and would use them no matter the swap. Just need driveshaft adapters.

The 2 engines would cancel each other out either way. So would the engine harnesses. But the 16 valve would be a hell of a lot easier to do, and would be finished a lot sooner. Not to mention, BETTER fuel mileage, less hassle with DMV and emissions issues, lower weight, etc.

I would need to gear the Zuk though to get it to near stock figures. Which brings me to a question: what diameter are stock Samurai tires? Can;t remember cuz I've never had them!

So, what would you guys do? The 4.3L or the 16 valve? Money is a big issue of course. Not to mention the work involved. I bought this Zuk to drive in, not wrench on.

I'm only concerned about the performance on-road of the 16 valve. With my larger tires and heaver axles, should I worry? It will be geared like I said, to near stock #'s. I'm just wondering about highway cruising. Need to be able to drive 70 MPH easily, even in a head wind. Don't want to have to drop gears everytime a hill comes along.... anyone?

Thanks for the help guys.

Cheers,
Steve
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 10-08-2003, 12:37 PM
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Re: 16 valve OR 4.3L.....second thoughts...

I'm only concerned about the performance on-road of the 16 valve. With my larger tires and heaver axles, should I worry? It will be geared like I said, to near stock #'s. I'm just wondering about highway cruising. Need to be able to drive 70 MPH easily, even in a head wind. Don't want to have to drop gears everytime a hill comes along.... anyone?

WELL... I don't have toy axles and shafts, but I do have hybreds with 4.62's. I am running 33's and the T-Case is a GRS1. My 16V is a OBD2 (97, low miler). With that said my trip down to the Rubicon last summer was a blast. I ran 5-10 over the speed limit (if not more) all the way down. At one point I was doing over 85 (took a pit stop and was trying to catch up). The motor had more to give, I didn't like the speed that much (must be getting old). I would say between the two I would take the 16V. If you tossed in a 1.9TD I would have to think about it and run the numbers on cost. By the way I am getting between 20 and 24 MPG with 33's, on average. I checked my mileage last week and I got 24.8 on that tank. Good power and good mileage, hard to beat. I want to put an auto in my next project, so I havn't decided what it will get yet. If it was a 5 speed it would be getting a 16V no question about it. [img]images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 10-08-2003, 12:45 PM
 
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Re: 16 valve OR 4.3L.....second thoughts...

I think you should put one of these under your hood


lol j/k, it all matters on what your drivetrain buildup is gonna be, high geared for high tires, or minimal gearing for minimal tires? either you invest in an engine swap that gives you load of torque ( and Im not joking about that one lol), or you spend less money on a lighter engine, but more money on gears...all in the works I 'spose [img]images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Sounds to me almost like your just getting burned out with it [img]images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 10-08-2003, 01:34 PM
 
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Re: 16 valve OR 4.3L.....second thoughts...

oh and if I recall correctly the over all stock diameter tire is 26.5"s....
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 10-08-2003, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 16 valve OR 4.3L.....second thoughts...

Thanks guys [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Yes, it has been burning me out lately. I think I just need to sit down and crunch some #'s and see where I'm headed. It's a little overwhelming when I think about what I have left to do, especially when winter is coming!!!! Ahh!!!! I'm going back and forth here: one minute I love the idea of just dropping in the 16V, the other minute, I can't wait to hear and feel the 4.3L :-) Who knows, the next couple weeks will tell... BTW, thanks for the tire diameter [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Keep those opinions coming! I'll be waiting [img]images/graemlins/beach.gif[/img]

Cheers,
Steve
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 10-08-2003, 02:00 PM
 
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Re: 16 valve OR 4.3L.....second thoughts...

Have you done any prep work to the the frame or body yet (ie torched and welded new mounts or cut up the tranny tunnel) to accomodate the 4.3 engine and drivetrain? If not, than perhaps it's not too late to change your mind.

I think you're right to assume that a 1.6L 16-valve is a lot less work. There's also a lot less troubleshooting down the road once the rig is rolling. And I'm speaking from experience.

I bought my 3.8L Zuk 90% complete. The previous owner is a good friend of mine and I know at the end of the day he just got tired of the building process. I also know he spent way more money overall than I bought it for. And yet when I sell it I'll likely lose money too. The 10% that wasn't complete took forever, and still there is always some troubleshooting.

With the 1.6 everything behind the engine stays the same the way it was engineered. A lot less trouble this way.

As for performance, sorry but I can't speak from experience. I have no idea what the "seat of the pants" feeling is with a 1.6L 16-valve. But I can tell you that the 3.8L is much stronger than the 1.3L. And I also love the auto tranny both on-road and off. But with a 1.6L you can use a Tracker auto tranny so that's not really a factor.

I'm sure the 1.6 will be much more fuel efficient than the 4.3. Perhaps you should consider this into the equation too since you say you'll be driving alot on the highway.

If your dead set on a V6 in a Zuk - buy mine. [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] All the work is already done and the rig has been proven onroad and offroad.

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 10-08-2003, 02:10 PM
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Re: 16 valve OR 4.3L.....second thoughts...

I may be a purist. I'd rather have the 16v any day of the week.
I ride with a fellow that has a 3.8L (231cid) Buick V-6 w/ a turbo 350 in his samurai. He wants to sell it and start over with a 4-cylinder. On any hill, be it up or down, the weight is too much for a samurai. The key to these vehicles is light-weight, lotsa gears, & low COG. If you're just runnin' mud drags, that's a different story. For a good all-around vehicle stick with the 1.6L

Brad.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 10-08-2003, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 16 valve OR 4.3L.....second thoughts...

I don't know about that whole argument regarding Samurai size to weight. I mean, look at the Jeeps, even the old ones which were even smaller, and they run about the same drivetrain as I will be. Almost exactly the same! Really, it has nothing to do with weight or top-heaviness, for me anyways. That was never an issue. It has just come down to time I suppose. But the more I think about it, the more the 4.3L sounds better. I've put in too much $$$ right now to turn around I think. Maybe, maybe not. Then again, I've got a ton of parts to sell, and maybe could recoup the cost of this buildup? I dunno. Keep the posts coming! [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Cheers,
Steve
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 10-08-2003, 02:33 PM
 
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Re: 16 valve OR 4.3L.....second thoughts...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
On any hill, be it up or down, the weight is too much for a samurai.

[/ QUOTE ] That's the same set-up mine has and I haven't experienced this problem. In fact overall I would have to say that my Samurai performs awesome in all conditions off-road (other than the carb choking up on steep downhills).
Of course this is just my opinion. My last Samurai was a LWB with 1.6L 8-valve and 4.16 transfercase, so I had the lightweight/low geared Zuk and I would say that the new one is no worse off than the last one. I think the TH350 auto compensates somewhat for gearing.

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post #10 of (permalink) Old 10-08-2003, 03:10 PM
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Re: 16 valve OR 4.3L.....second thoughts...

Going uphill is O.K. 'cept for when the carb loads up. Power + weight definately works to his advantage. But, downhill or any off-camber situation &amp; the front-end wants to pull, using the weight as a disadvantage. Any time the front-end wants to bounce, it pulls down. Not a good thing if you're hanging close to the edge.

Brad.

Here's a pic. going up.
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