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post #1 of (permalink) Old 05-04-2003, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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Weld it or bolt it?

Afriend of mine made some rock rails out of 2x2 square stock for his welding class project. These things are beefy and he really did a great job on them, taperd end caps and all . My question is should I drill through the rails and frame and bolt them on; or should I just weld the puppies in.
[img]images/graemlins/AR15firing.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/AR15firing.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/AR15firing.gif[/img]
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 05-04-2003, 09:38 PM
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Re: Weld it or bolt it?

Weld them , if the bolts break off the rails could get jammed up through the floors....
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 05-04-2003, 10:12 PM
 
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Re: Weld it or bolt it?

Mine are bolted on and have taken some tough falls. 5 grade 8 bolts (?size?) holds them on. If I knew how to weld I would have gone that route.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 05-05-2003, 12:05 AM
 
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Re: Weld it or bolt it?

I'm going to break the pattern and say not to weld them, Except:

If you choose to weld them do not make a full pass vertically on the frame rails. I have seen too many
frames fail at or near vertical welds on rails. If you can make a horizontal pass for the top and bottom,
then you would be OK.

Now I'm going to hear a load of, uh, "stuff" about how a weld is stronger than the original material,
my welds never break, bla bla bla. True statement(s) (possibly) by itself. However, most welds introduce
a stress riser adjacent to the weld. If not nomalized, or if something isnt done to move the stress off
the weld zone (gussets, bracing etc.), over time you wind up with a fractured frame. It even got me once.

There is a reason big truck frames are always stamped that welding is not allowed on them. To prevent
bad welding practices. Keep any welds on frames to a small crossection of the frame, or in line with
the stresses and strains placed on it.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 05-05-2003, 08:44 AM
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Re: Weld it or bolt it?

The term you are looking for
"most welds introduce a stress riser adjacent to the weld"
In my welding course it was called the HAZ or heat affected zone.
If that area is not addressed in the welding process, it can be a problem.
I'm sure there are welders on the list that have alot more experience and can explane it better than me.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 05-05-2003, 10:47 AM
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Re: Weld it or bolt it?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
There is a reason big truck frames are always stamped that welding is not allowed on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason is that big truck frames are heat treated. Welding on them detroys this in the welded area creating a weak spot. That is why all the factory hardware is bolted or riveted to these frames.

If you look at a passenger car frame, there are all kinds of things welded on from the factory. They are mild steel, i.e. not heat treated.

If you weld them on the frame, weld the bottom of the plate also.

Either way should work if done properly.

Jim
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 05-05-2003, 12:51 PM
 
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Re: Weld it or bolt it?

GRW and outlaw are right, the more passes that are made to a surface the more you heat the metal up and warp it, given this metal is always a high gauge I personally feared welding motor mounts on it, especially be concerned if your gonna do the original 3 passes to make a weld that will not break. Just bolt'er on and call it a day, hell use your weld time to reinforce more bolt on points before you weld them on...
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 05-05-2003, 02:51 PM
 
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Re: Weld it or bolt it?

So when I do my 3.8v6 swap I should bolt the mounts on and not weld them. If so, do you put bolts through the whole frame or just one wall? Also how many and what size and grade bolts should I use?
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 05-05-2003, 02:59 PM
 
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Re: Weld it or bolt it?

Matters, I made one huge pass to weld my motor mounts on for my 305, on the inside of the frame. Im building a wrap around motor mount design, so I will only make stitch welds on the other side. Stitch welds are welds that are layed an inch or so apart, some believe when welding important things like perches etc. on that you should lay One inch beads one on top of the other eventually creating one big pass..I hate the fact of reheating the metal that many times...
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