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post #1 of (permalink) Old 02-26-2003, 10:41 AM
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Anyone use stock carb with Sumo 2 head?

Hello all. Finally getting my 1.3 rebuilt in my 88 Sammy. I've got one of the Sumo 2 heads for it and was wondering if anyone here has run that head with the stock carb. Not sure whether to sell it and buy a Weber or just run it. Would be nice to eliminate all those tubes and wires. No smog checks here to worry about. Also, should high compression pistons be used with this combo or just regular ones. I know the head was milled and am not sure about clearance issues with HC pistons, or if this would just be overkill for this engine.

Block and crank are at the machine shop now, so I've got a little time to decide what to do.

What are the opinions here? [img]images/graemlins/40BEER.gif[/img]
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 02-26-2003, 11:50 AM
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Re: Anyone use stock carb with Sumo 2 head?

I have the Sumo 2 head on a Swift GTi short block (flat-top GTi pistons with 4-valve reliefs in the pistons) and have put thousands of miles on it without any problems, despite the head being milled down an additional .020 to raise the compression even further. Revving the motor up to 9000rpm doesn't float the valves or cause any other problems. High compression pistons will definitely help extract the most power out of the block.

Using the stock carburetor will definitely be counter-productive. The stock carb restricts horsepower on a stock motor, so the money you've invested into the new head will be pretty much wasted. I would definitely recommend getting a Weber. You'll notice a huge improvement in power.

-- Geoff Beasley
post #3 of (permalink) Old 02-26-2003, 02:19 PM
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Re: Anyone use stock carb with Sumo 2 head?

I've got the GTI shortblock and the Sumo II head with the stock carb. I've got an intake modified for performance for my weber project (just about complete, I'll have pictures). I have found the stock carb to do well up to about 6000rpm, then the power dies off (I think it'll go lean, I'm not going to press it till the weber). I have about 9.5~10.X compression with this setup. For a break in, I'd say if you have a GOOOOOOD running stock carb, run it for 2k miles and then go for a weber. I'll have to get back to you on how my weber and sumo 2 setup goes..
A stock carb will work, great power compared to a stock engine w/header + 2" running on 3 cylinders! Good running stock vs stock carb w/sumo ii, I don't know how they will compare....
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 02-26-2003, 02:29 PM
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Re: Anyone use stock carb with Sumo 2 head?

At 6000rpm mine's still just wakin' up! I have the weber 32/32 (I think the 32/36 is too big even for a hopped-up 1300) and it keeps pulling hard right on past 8000rpm. I don't know exactly what my compression ratio is with the GTi pistons and the head milled down, but we estimated it's somewhere around 11:1. I do know that if I run anything less than 91 octane, it'll diesel when I cut off the ignition, due to the high compression. But when the weather's cold, I can run midgrade gas with the timing a little retarded and it won't ping under load, since my revs are always up high. But it'll still diesel sometimes when I shut if off. Oh well, it's one sweet-running little motor. [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-- Geoff Beasley
post #5 of (permalink) Old 02-26-2003, 11:49 PM
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Re: Anyone use stock carb with Sumo 2 head?

You think a 32/36 is too big for a 1.3? Wow, guess my 38/38 is way too big then? Seems to run great , even with a stock bottom end Sami 1.3 . On your setup, it would really scream ...
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 02-27-2003, 01:27 AM
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Re: Anyone use stock carb with Sumo 2 head?

Goodness Sarge, I thought you did have the swift gti shortblock. Hmph [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Can't wait for my weber project to be completed!
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 02-27-2003, 02:23 AM
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Re: Anyone use stock carb with Sumo 2 head?

sarge,
what do you think of the sumo 2 head? after talking to you at the last 2 zukimelt's, i know that you know your stuff, and trust your opinion more than anyone else. i blew my motor and have picked up a fresh rebuilt stock, but the head wasn't done in the rebuild, so i was considering the sumo 2. my other thought was a rebuilt 1.6 head and have i guy i know locally that builds minisprint motors port and polish it for me.
thanks, hope to see ya at the melt again this year
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 02-27-2003, 10:43 PM
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Re: Anyone use stock carb with Sumo 2 head?

I HAD a GTi bottom end w/8 valve custom pistons in it . Completely blueprinted and balanced , very expensive engine . It now resides in the basement , dead . Missed one detail in it , ring gap on forged aluminum . Don't ask , one of these days I'll hold a funeral for it .
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 02-28-2003, 02:07 AM
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Re: Anyone use stock carb with Sumo 2 head?

I remember that poor sad story on your engine. *sniff* :<
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 02-28-2003, 09:11 AM
 
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Re: Anyone use stock carb with Sumo 2 head?

Sarge,
Here is you another good opportunity. Lots of people asking questions about the Sumo II head here lately. I don't think it is anything more than ported and polished with larger exhaust valves. If you have the equipment to do the job....! A lot of people on this board trust you.

Also, while were talking about it. Why does AAPA only sell the low range cam with the Sumo 2 head? Is there a reason that we should know about. Is the larger exhaust valves with stock intake valves only good for low rpm power? Just curious.
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