1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups
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post #1 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2002, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes

For all of those folks SO very fond of the 1.6litre engines, this is the difference between the rods . Personally, I wouldn't wind a 1.6 very hard....
Sarge....

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2002, 10:01 AM
 
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Re: 1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes

Sarge - you seem to have a good idea whats available for pistons &amp; rods: any idea if suzuki ever offered a low compresion 1300 for 'other markets'? I'm starting to look into parts for the 1300 CIS turbo project, and ideally I'd like to get the comrpession down to ~7.5:1, prefereably without having to resort to custom dished pistons.

suggestions on whats been available??

chris
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2002, 11:19 AM
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Re: 1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes

Hey Sergeant,
The question that pops into my head when I see that picture is: Maybe the steel material of the 1600cc rod is harder/stronger. I'm sure Suzuki made the rods strong enought to handle the power.

BTW, I just saw an 1600 engine that threw (munched) not one rod but two rods. The soldier wouldn't tell me how fast he was going but he was on the Autobahn so he was probably flying. I attached a picture of the carnage.

Wanderer4x4, that might be possible for the Indian/African market but the pistons in the US samurais are already dished. I believe the ones in Europe came with flat tops and a 9.5:1 compression from the factory.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2002, 11:23 AM
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Re: 1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes

Another pic.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2002, 11:27 AM
 
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Re: 1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes

'where' isnt an issue - I have friends in asia, europe, and Aus who ship me stuff for the Niva all the time - I just need to know if they were made, and what sort of compression ratios were available

cost-wise, I susepct it might be more efficient to modify a 1.6 head, and run that on a 1.3 block for lower compression - I havent gotten around to checking the chamber cc's, and what mods would be necessary to get a decent gasket seal on that combo though. Shorter rods are yet another option - again, I havent checked a 1300 to see what sort of piston skirt clearance / tolerance there is. looking at the rod pics Sarge posted, it might be a good idea to get special rods made anyway for a turbo motor 8^D

whichever way I go, I want something repeatable, not a 1 off - then if it works well, I'll offer kits up to do conversions.

chris
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2002, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes

First off , I don't believe there were any low comp. pistons available , at least that I could find . My idea was a simple B&amp;M aftermarket belt drive supercharger . I built one "1 off " motor , that didn't work , either . Turns out , it was assembled with the rings at cast specs , with my $600 forged pistons . Needless to say , 3k later the rings are fried , and 3 pistons are junk . That one is going to get 78mm pistons, off the shelf cast , and rebuild the Swift's bottom end . I guess we'll find out how good the liners are , since this is .100" over the stock 1298 bore size . The 1.6 rods are the same strength as far as I and my machinist can tell , they just plain suck . The problem is the extra .500" stroke in the 1600 engine, the rods had to be lighter or the crank weights would never clear the block . If you want to lower the compression ratio , the cheapest way to do that would be to use the aftermarket shims , such as dead soft copper . They usually only cost about $180 , just have to send off a donor head gasket to match it . Also, they are reusable , and no head gasket is required . I'm still trying to come up with a better and stronger "recipe" engine , using off the shelf parts to keep the cost to a minimum .
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2002, 09:38 PM
 
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Re: 1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes

Sarge,
how much skirt overlap is there at the bottom of the block? I dont object to getting a shop to make me a prototype for a later run, if they'll sell, so I'm wondering if custom short rods are the way for me to go: I'd be killing 2 birds with one stone, getting the lower compression, and stronger rods..

extra thick head gaskets / copper shims / etc : I've had bad experiences with using them in turbo apps...might just be bad luck, but I dont like the pattern I've seen. I engineer things to last, then I feel confident sellign them...mayb I'm old fashioned, but I sure as hell dont get any complaints that 'things are too well made' 8^D

its all blue sky right now, as I 'm waiting to get paid etc, before I can start R&amp;D. just for laughs, any thoughts on the following ( based on your personal experiences with the suzuki blocks)
- hardwelded de-stroked crank.
- cc'ing the heads fro max volume / lowest compression ( how much 'meat' is in the heads?)
- shorter rods - will the skirts handle the extra side loads?
- 1600 cc head on a 1300 block - what are the respective bore sizes / chamber volumes like?

I've also heard a couple of comments regarding the deck heights on the 1300, and 1600..how much of a difference is there? ( ie:. is it feasible to run 1300 rods in the 1600?)

I'm NOT stuck on it being a 1300 turbo, so I'm just looking at all the numbers to see which block will make the best end-product.

chris

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 05-19-2002, 12:51 AM
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Re: 1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes

Are you sure that's a 1.6L rod or is it from your lawnmower? I think the engineer who designed the 1.6L should be thrashed with a wet noodle.

I guess I'll have to give up my 6500 rpm red light launches in my Sidekick, LOL


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post #9 of (permalink) Old 05-19-2002, 02:42 AM
 
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Re: 1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes

What if you used the stock low comp.(dished)1324 pistons with the 1298 crank (shorter stroke)? Would this get you anywhere close?
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 05-19-2002, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 1.3 vs. 1.6 rod sizes

The samurai engine's stroke is 2.9134". The Metro or "K" engine is 3.031" , and the Swift GT "B" engine is 3.032". However, the stroke on the 1.6 motor is 3.543 , both 8v and 16v variants . The rods in the Sami are 4.7238" long , the Metro's are 4.7244" , and the Tracker's are 5.4960" long . All the 1.3's share the 1.77" journal end , with the 1.6 being 1.85". Right now I can't find the specs I had on all the pistons, and the skirt differences , nor the pin height measurements . If I remember correctly , some of the 1.6 engines did have floating wrist pins , using locking clips to retain the wrist pins. The compression height is where it gets tricky , I wish I could find those notes now . The Samurai and the Metro share the almost same small end diameter, but the Swift GT and the 1.6 motors share the pin size within .0003" . I'd like to get all three blocks next to each other , and do some serious measuring to see what could be done, but I'm lacking a 1.6 block .
Sarge
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