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post #1 of (permalink) Old 08-24-2003, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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AK-47 GOOD, M-16 POS GARBAGE

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ak_47_heaven_1

I never liked that POS, and I never will. Varmint rifle at best. What does it mean when the left of center mainstream media picks up on stuff Soldier of Fortune (and anyone who has experience with M-16's) has been saying for decades?[img]images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2003, 12:21 AM
 
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Re: AK-47 GOOD, M-16 POS GARBAGE

I hear you there AJM... How many soldiers had to die in Vietnam when the M-16 first came out because of it jamming. When Mcnamara and his "whiz kids" made the change from the M-14 to the M-16 they killed countless numbers of American soldiers... [img]images/graemlins/AR15firing.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/AR15firing.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/AR15firing.gif[/img]
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2003, 10:39 AM
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Re: AK-47 GOOD, M-16 POS GARBAGE

The M16 has come a long way, and is way more reliable now than in the 70's. The AK has more stopping power (7.62 vs 5.56), but is far less accurate than the M16. The current M4 is probably one of the best firearms in the world.
When you think about Joe in the field, having to carry a combat load of 210 rounds, 5.56 is a lot lighter too. So is a weapon made from plastic and aluminum, versus wood and steel.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2003, 12:14 PM
 
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Re: AK-47 GOOD, M-16 POS GARBAGE

There is nothing wrong with the AK-47. It is the most recognizable rifle in the world. It will function when submerged in mud and other debris and it is a very simple yet strong design.

I am a big fan of the AR-15 rifles. They have a modern design and they are not burdensome to tote around. They fire a very potent cartridge too. Some say the 5.56mm NATO is too small but that keeps the weight.

I have read the AR-15/M16's suffered in the reliability department when they were first introduced but the high humidity of SE Asia played havoc with the M14's wood stock. Not only that but the 7.62mm NATO rounds were just too heavy to tote many rounds around.

Each rifle weather it be military or civilian in nature has its strengths and drawbacks. Likewise goes with the cartridges.

Also, I don't care for the AK-47's because of who you see using them the most. I am going to stick to the good old American design.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2003, 03:38 PM
 
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Re: AK-47 GOOD, M-16 POS GARBAGE

All very, very good points... I guess it always has been and continues to be a matter of personal opinion on which you like better. And since I live in this country and since American soldiers gave up their lives to protect my freedoms ( and my/our opinions ) I say each to their own... [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 08-27-2003, 01:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: AK-47 GOOD, M-16 POS GARBAGE

I was a Marine from 97-01. I wasn't 03 Infantry, but as with any deployable Marine, I had an M-16A2 in my name at the armory that I went down once a month to clean and qualified with it once a year. I was NOT impressed with any M-16A2 I had. Every time I had it out in the field, from training in bootcamp to just at the rifle range qualifying, I had jams and mystery breaks. Did not impress me at all. I'm also a subscriber to and big fan of Soldier of Fortune magazine. Say what you want about those guys, but they stand 100% behind the US Military and want what's best for our boys and girls. They've had some bad words about the M-16/AR-15/M4/etc family always, but it's intensified since Afghanistan. The M4 carbines have issues with accuracy and recoil breaking things due to the short barrels (there are even shorter variants on the way), the aluminum receivers of all of them are hollowing out around the bolt/slide handle at around 6000 rounds (I had a couple M-16A2's that I think had this problem), and once again, guys are talking about how they jam up in anything but idealic settings and the lack of stopping power. Especially in Afghanistan where the targets are malnourished. The rounds seem to go right through them and they keep coming, even the "big" 77-grain match bullets. In Iraq with the Saddam's pudgy bullies they seem to be working a bit better, but again, not as well as would be hoped for. None of the "tumbling wound affect" BS they told us about in bootcamp. Shoot 'em a buncha times and hope you hit something vital.

My plan if the [bleep] every hit the fan was volunteer to carry the SAW. Same weak cartridge, but at least I had a belt of 200 rounds of it, and the gun was much more reliable. Either that or snag an AK off a dead guy.

As for the AK not being accurate, have you ever shot one? I own one. An Egyptian made Maadi, semi auto post ban rifle, made in about 1994. Admittedly I haven't shot it out to great distances myself, and only have a couple hundred rounds through it. I was gone most of the time I've owned it. However, at 100 yards you can get 2-3" groups without any trouble, just throw it to your shoulder and fire. I'm told by guys who are much more enthusiastic about shooting them that at 300-330 yards with a regular rifle you can get all your aimed shots into the torso of a man sized target. Not a tack driver, but accurate enough for killing at modern combat distances. Ever tried to shoot at 500 yards with an M-16? I have, good luck. The wind changes slightly and you have to totally redo your sight dope. The wind just pushes that little .223/5.56 bullet around. You'll notice now a days that even among the Marines when you hear of infantry fighting, most of the stuff beyond 200 yards is handled by the snipers and their .308's or the grenade launchers or machine guns. Everyone's starting to carry M4's now anyways, I'm doubious about their accuracy after all I've heard.

American or not, you can't argue with what works. Lay an AK-47 on the ground outside for a week. Pick it up, I'll bet ya $100 it will fire with at most a kick to the charging handle.[img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Assuming no one ran it over with a bulldozer or whatever. Do the same with an M-16. Anyone wanna bet me $100 the bolt will even move?
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 08-27-2003, 09:18 PM
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Re: AK-47 GOOD, M-16 POS GARBAGE

get a little sand in the M16 and you can't pull the charging handle and sometimes it is a pain to getthe upper and lower recievers apart. Trust me on this.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 08:26 PM
 
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Re: AK-47 GOOD, M-16 POS GARBAGE

I carry the M16A2 every day at work along with 120 rounds of the 5.56 natoball with a 4 to one tracer ratio. I have fired it countless times. I have found if you can keep it clean and alwasy in great shape and have very good knowledge in the weapon you have very little jamming problems. And you can hit a dime from 550meters. But i have used blanks in exerices in the field and when you can't always clean it and inspect it all hell breaks loose when you need it most. I had it jam every other round and then panic sets in and it even becames worse. We will soon be getting the M-4's They shoot the same round but do lose range because of the shorter barrel compared to the M16A2. I have never fired the Ak47 so i don't know anything about it. But i will say that the new german rifles are outstanging. I can't recall the name but they are freakin sweet to fire. There handgun was to heavy for my taste and the machine gun was no better then our M-60. I like our M-249 best. redtoy92 [img]images/graemlins/RockOn.gif[/img]
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 08-29-2003, 02:01 AM
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Re: AK-47 GOOD, M-16 POS GARBAGE

GLOCK........................ [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 08-29-2003, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: AK-47 GOOD, M-16 POS GARBAGE

Glock.............okay, you're gonna use what when you need to shoot farther than 25 yards?[img]images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img][img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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