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swift better then 1.6'er????

960 views 22 replies 9 participants last post by  studlybil03 
#1 ·
swift better then 1.6\'er????

I noticed something when glancing at engine performance specs, it turns out, or so it seems, that the Swift GTI (1.3 16v dual overhead cam), engine puts out more then the suzuki 1.6 16v! Since the swift motor is pushing more and lighter, wouldnt it be a better upgrade then the 1.6? Please tell me someone has some dyno tests to prove this wrong cause otherwise, why would everyone go through hassle of 1.6 16v????
 
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#2 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

The 16v DOHC 1300 in the Swift does put out 100hp, 5 more than the 16v 1600. However, it's a high-revving motor with low displacement, so it doesn't put out the low-end torque that the 1600 does. Unless you have real low gearing, you'd probably be better off with the 1600.

-- Geoff Beasley
 
#5 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

Well, I'll agree to all that except for one thing , rods . If you wheel it with a heavy foot , that 1.6's days are numbered . All it takes is to zing it once too often on a hill or in some mud and it's all over....
Sarge
 
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#7 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

But with the 1600 pistons you lose the high compression of the GTi pistons. You can get 40-overbore GTi pistons which are the same bore as the standard 1600 pistons, so you'll have the increase in displacement plus the high compression plus the strength of the GTi bottom end.

-- Geoff Beasley
 
#8 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

if you plan on doing much mud running, steer clear of either of the 1.6's. over rev a 1.6 and their weak a$$ rods will shoot out the side of the block like a handgranade went off. i've seen far too many 1.6's with horrible rod and crank failures without even being pushed "hard". even a stock 1.3 8v can take more punishment than those one-legged dogs.
 
#9 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

I have yoters Im about to put under there, next I plan to run sumo gears, so 4.10's with sumo's the swift motor should push out right shouldnt it? I was talking to Scott last night and from the sounds of it the engine is all forged etc...Sounds like a stout little motor... Since Im already injected would all would be needed for the swap?
 
#10 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

gti heads use port injection. the injectors are in the side of the head. you will need a gti speed sensor to put into your zuk instrumentation, a complete gti engine, gti computer/ wire harness, water neck off a chevy sprint because the gti one points strait at the fire wall. a samurai water tube from back of water pump, sammy oil pan/oil pick up tube & dipstick and tube, sammy motor mounts and a custom or modified samurai hedder.

your efi zuk will use its stock fuel pump fine but wiring will be needed. your zuks tbi is far different from a gtis port injection. if you use a gti water pump you will need to use an electric fan. if you use a zuk one, you should be able to use a zuk fan clutch but they suck A$$ so use the electric fan.

you will also need to massage the fire wall a little bit with a ball peen hammer for disty clearance. this scares everyone but i did it and it is not a big deal. if you use any amount of skill on it the indentation will appear as if it was factory.

also, i have all the parts with the exception of the gti bottom end and custom header for sale if anyone needs pm me.
 
#11 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

Jeez, it almost seems as if the hybrid motor is a better option, I will look into it a lot closer, and even see if I can find a friggin GTI motor all together...Maybe GTI bottom end with 16v head? To many options Im sure to list...
 
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#12 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

I was originally going to put the whole GTi motor, head, electronics, and all into my Samurai. But once I saw all the crap that would need to be done to get it to work, I got talked into a Sumo 2 head.

So although this hi-perf Samurai head doesn't crank out quite as much horsepower as the 16v GTi head, it's still a very high-flow head with increased compression, larger valves, and a cam designed for torque, which is what an off-road vehicle really needs. It's no more complex or heavy than a plain old Samurai motor, but I have the bulletproof internals of the GTi motor.

I have sufficient torque to be able to pull from 500rpm, and efficient enough head flow to be able to peg the tach with ease. I recently completed 2 cross-country drives in the Samurai, during which my motor saw from 4500rpm during regular cruising, on up to 8000rpm passing trucks on the long uphill grades. The motor loves to rev high, and in 20,000 miles of revving the snot out of it, it hasn't had a single problem.

Conversely, my friend's 1600 starts begging to be shifted at 4500rpm. It's much more course at that speed than my motor is at 8000rpm. And whenever he rides in my Samurai, he comments on how smooth the engine is and is always surprised at how happily it revs to insane speeds. If he were to build a new motor again for his Samurai, he'd go with a hybrid GTi instead of a built 8-valve 1600.

-- Geoff Beasley
 
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#13 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

In reply to:

Also, the 1.3 GT engine is a LOT more difficult to find whereas the 16Vs are all over the place.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I started looking for mine, I gave Trail Tough a call and they had 3 in stock for a very reasonable price. You might also try Petroworks.

-- Geoff Beasley
 
#14 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

How much Horse power do you reckon your setup is putting out? Are you running a carburator or injec.?
I am thinking about doing as you have--buy a gti block (low mileage), get a sumo two head, and run a dual mikuni setup
, I think this setup would scream, would the best exaust be a 2 inch with hi-flow cat, and maybe a flowmaster? What exaust are you running?
I am already getting the dual carb setup, so I just need block and head. How much is the going price for a low mi. gti block? i think I can do this complete setup for under a g. (my header on my 1.3 now will fit right)?
I had thought about the sumo two long block, but I can do this setup for much cheaper than 1300 just for a block and head!
What gearing are you running? What size tires? What is your comfortable cruiseing speed? What rpms at like 70?

Thanks Alot, Scott
 
#15 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

Anyone who has seen me wheel knows that the 1.6 16 valve I had was abused to death. I held it at the rev-limiter for 3-5 minutes straight to get out of a mud pit at the Melt last year (ask anyone who was there!). I have been nothing but impressed with the 1.6 16 valve's performance and durability and believe that it is without a doubt the most economical drop in Zuk engine with the best all around useable power band (for street, mud, trails, rock, sand, etc) and a very smooth running strong motor. They are definately more readily available than the Swift 1.3 GTI motors and can hold up to my insane driving style. Other than cracking the aluminum block by shearing off the passengers side motor mount I have been unable to damage mine. Granted, most people do not jump their Samurai 57 feet every day and it is something I would not recommend. most motors would not hold up to this anyway. The Swift GTI motors are rated at almost 100 hp and so are the 1.6 16 valve motors....my manual says they are 99hp, though I have had one tested at almost 120hp!

Just my experiances and opinions...take them for what they are worth.

Sean DeVinney
 

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#16 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

I think I would take whatever is up for grabs right now, I talked to Robbie earlier, and he may be able to get my hands on one ( rob sucks them in like a shop vac lol), so its whatever I can turn up, I was also glancing at the SUMO II motors, sure a big budget but it looks like a hell of an engine, lol aftermarket experiences are what make the best of knowledge, so your guess woudl be way better then mine, same with some other people.
 
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#17 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

I'd say that my horsepower is close to but not quite as much as a 16-valve 1600 (95hp). But it's more powerful than an 8-valve 1600 (80hp), so I'd guess it's somewhere around 90hp. I have a useful RPM range between 500-9000rpm, but it really gets on the cam at 4000rpm and it's pulling like a freight train from 6000rpm on up and it doesn't let off until I do. I usually shift once the tach needle stops moving, just to play it on the safe side, but I know I've had it at 9000rpm or higher.

I have the Sumo 2 head with the torque cam. I have a Weber 32/32, a Thorley header, a catalytic converter, a Dynomax Race Magnum muffler, and 2-inch pipe. It's going through an English 6.1:1 transfer case to stock axles with 4.57 Yukon gears and turning 33x14.50 Swamper SSR's on 15x10 steelies. The weight of the tires and wheels (over 100lbs at each corner) has a significant affect on acceleration and braking so it takes a lot of the oomph out of the engine and 4-wheel-discs, but it'll get going 85mph despite the barn-door aerodynamics. Not too shabby for only 1298cc's.

Any speed is a comfortable cruising speed, but the slower the more comfortable. I usually keep it to 60-65mph so I'm not revving the motor quite so fast, so it's less noisy and more fuel efficient.

-- Geoff Beasley
 
#18 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

Geoff,
You really should try a 38 Outlaw with that setup on the motor . Also, don't sell your head short when comparing to a 16 valve head , modded (correctly) 8v heads do very well and some will actually outflow a 16valve . If you adjust the cam timiing a bit , you can bring down the torque curve as well , works great on mine even with a 330 Isky cam ....
Sarge
 
#19 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

How much of a power increase would you have between the weber 32/32 and set of dual mikuni carbs? Would it make a pretty big difference? Just wondering because I am gonna go with zukimans setup and the dual mikuni's.

Zukiman- thanks for the info.

Thanks, Scott
 
#20 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

Im running a swift block(notgti) with an eight valve head/webered. Good all around motor for my purposes.
Maybe its just me, but the swift block looks beefier than the standard 1300cc block. Just my observation though.

Kamazuki
 
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#21 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

In reply to:

How much of a power increase would you have between the weber 32/32 and set of dual mikuni carbs? Would it make a pretty big difference?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well I can't give you a specific percentage, but the dual carbs should get you more power than my single carb. When I installed this Weber back in 1995 on my old stock engine, there was a big boost in power, especially at high altitudes. I haven't run dual carbs on my motor, but I have ridden in 2 different Samurais with the Mikuni's and both of them ran quite strong. They're a great improvement over the wimpy stock carb. However, the owners of both were constantly fiddling with them to keep them in tune. The first guy also wound up with a burnt up a motor when his friend drove the Zuk for a couple months while he was in the Carribbean, and one of the carbs wound up running too lean. Then when he pulled the carbs off so he could assemble a new motor, a homeless guy stole the carbs from his shop so he just went back to a Weber.

FYI, my Weber is a 32/32, not the 32/36 that most people have. But I've had mine a lot longer than most; I bought it back in 1995 from Calmini, and it seems to run a little better than the 32/36's. Heck, DaveAZ once told me it runs like it's fuel injected, and he's been running the Webers for years so he's used to how they typically run. But either way, they're great carbs, and I'm proof that they last a long time. For me, I prefer the simplicity of the single Weber over the complexity of the dual Mikuni's, even if it comes at a slight sacrifice in performance. But to each his own....

-- Geoff Beasley
 
#23 ·
Re: swift better then 1.6\'er????

whatever engine swap I do has to be mostly bolt in, because I have to time anymore, I put the V8 in the other zuk, but now i have to sell it and everythign with it, I have no time, so now I must resort to kits etc...
 
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