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**DONOTDELETE** 04-10-2000 01:11 AM

building a mud truck
 
I am in the process of building a mud truck. I am going with a 86 toyota extra cab. I am going to run a built 440 that runs in the high nines in a 2800 pound car. I want to run a a hemi fourspeed, 205 transfer case, full width 60 in the rear with 5.38s and a 44 in the front with 5.13s. I want to run 44 inch boggers. I am not sure what suspension to run, coilovers with a fourlink setup front and rear or leafsprings.I would appretiate any suggestions on gearing, suspensions, or drivetrain.

thanks,
Dustin





RolngThun 04-10-2000 05:46 AM

Re: building a mud truck
 
You didn't say if you were building more for bogs or drags. But the big thing that stands out for me is that hemi 4 speed. I guess that would be a stick? Standard transmissions don't work very well in mud drags. I don't care how fast a guy feels he can shift it won't be fast enough in the mud. As soon as you touch the clutch to shift the mud stops the tires from turning.


TEX 04-10-2000 09:35 AM

Re: building a mud truck
 
<font color=purple>First thing first, rules, rules, rules, rules! Check with the local rules of your area to see which of these modifications will even be legal in the class in which you plan to race. It might not even be legal to put a solid front under that IFS truck, depending on how strict the class is. If you're planning mud drags, forget those 44's. They're too big & too fat. The tire of choice for trucks in uncut classes is the 38.5X11 Bogger - for drags anyway. This is what the current NMRO class III record holder runs. The very fastest guys in that class are all running 512-632" engines & doing real well on those tires.

If you plan mud BOGS, that's a different story altogether. Now, in my area, 44's are a big no-no in Bogs because they get their own separate class with many sanctioning bodies (not mine however). Most guys run 39.5's in order to get in more classes. May not be an issue where you are however. And almost nobody runs Boggers on the front. Swampers up front with Boggers in the back. If you plan to run nitrous (if allowed), you can make use of Boggers if you truck is under 3,000 lbs. Typical running gear is 44 front with 9" or 60 rear.

And bog or drag, forget about any stick shift tranny. You'll get your lunch handed to you by folks with much less powerful engines. Run an automatic. Trust me. I used to run a stick, & so did everyone else around here. Now, nobody does.</font color=purple>

TEX

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing


**DONOTDELETE** 04-10-2000 07:45 PM

Re: building a mud truck
 
Listen to them about rowing them damn stick shifts I can testify to that! And those big fat tires will just slow ya down too. The skinnier the better for mud racing, leave the fat meats to the pretty boys who like to pay someone to change there bearings and seals every year. Had some 16x9 Power King Super Traction tires on my Z71. They are about 35.5 inches tall down right pull. Clean out like military tires and would fly around 39.5 boggers if the other truck wasn't geared and had lots of cubes. Has any-one else noticed that a truck with no lift and skinny aggressive tires can haul-ass in the mud. Anyway dont mean to get off track, could ramble on all night. Good luck, sounds like you have the aspiration and the money too back it.


RolngThun 04-10-2000 09:54 PM

Re: building a mud truck
 
Do you having trouble staging and staying staged with that stick? If so I have a very simple fix for you.


**DONOTDELETE** 04-10-2000 11:59 PM

Re: building a mud truck
 
The class i am going to run in allows all the modifications i am planning on doing. I want to ditch all the brakes on the differentials and run one caliper in between the tranny and transfer case. I wanted to use a stick because i was planning on one gearing it, and i could choose which gear to leave in. Do you guys think it would be better to run a auto with a high stall and a trans brake. and our mud pit is 100 ft long and one truck goes one at a time. What type of suspension should i use? The tire limit in my class is 44 inch uncut boggers. What tire do you guys recommend in this class?

Thanks
Dustin


**DONOTDELETE** 04-11-2000 11:22 AM

Re: building a mud truck
 
Definitely go with the auto. With mud racing the one who can spin the tires the fastest wins. An auto gives you three gears to run through while a manual only gives you one. As for suspension, the trickest suspension I have seen is Four Link front and rear with coil-over shocks. Just make sure the front end is setup correctly with the bars going forward. A friend had a Dodge D-50, 454 cid(~700hp), 44" cut mudders. He could stop in the middle of a 3 foot pit,let the truck sink down and with a touch of the throttle the truck would instantly lift itself out of the mud and be gone. For stability sake, use as little lift as possible. Cut the fenders out as needed.

Did it go together nice and easy? You did something wrong.Will have to do it again.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
DaveC

TEX 04-11-2000 02:42 PM

Re: building a mud truck
 
<font color=purple>Definitely go with the auto. A stick is okay for a 100 foot pit, but mud racing is addictive & you'll start travelling. And most places will run much longer pits/tracks. As to what tires, can't really say unless I know how deep it is. If it's a big ol' slophole, the big meats would be the way to go, although I would still advise against the Boggers on the front - especially with a 44 front. Boggers are parts breakers & have a tendancy to dig straight down when you lose momentum. That's why most bog racers only run them on the back.

If you're planning to run shallow drag-style racing, you'll still need a relatively tall tire just for traction. 34X9.50's work great on stock or relatively stock trucks. But, you'll overpower them with an engine that runs in "the 9's". I actually considered a set of 9.00X16's as mentioned above, but couldn't find any with that really aggressive directional tread. They had discontinued that size in that tread style.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Found some great ones in a British magazine that are designed for the Turkish military, but couldn't find them over here. Slightly wider, but basically the same height is the Q78. You can get those in Super Swampers or Buckshot Mudders. I'd consider these the minimum tires for you, but you'll probably overpower them also. R85 Buckshot Mudders are about 37" tall, but most guys who ran them have switched to the 38.5X11 Bogger (real height about 37.5"). In an "uncut" class running on shallow mud, you'll run away from 44's on these skinny Boggers.

And check into rules outside of that particular track also. You're planning a really extensive (and expensive) buildup here. I suspect you'll be competitive. Make sure that you won't make one mod too many to make yourself illegal for similar classes elsewhere. Trust me, this gets in your blood. And if you start to dominate locally, you'll be looking for other places to play.</font color=purple>

TEX

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing


**DONOTDELETE** 04-12-2000 11:21 PM

Re: building a mud truck
 
Tex,I've got some 9.00-16s, directional, no less. They look like old farm tires. I bought them for "mud drags". You know my 44s aren't any good for drags. The 9.00s look cool as all get out on a one ton '71 Blazer. Hub caps finish off the look. I've been told they are still available. I'll try to get some info for you.
I was wantin' to ask you and the other mudders out there a guestion. If you had a truck with gobs of lift and a choice of tires, would you rather run straight 44s front and rear or 39.5 Boggers all round. I've got room for either and can spin the 44s with ease (big block and 5.13s). I just wondered what your observations have been concerning this. I know you're biased against boggers on front. I'm running 60 fronts, so breakage is much less of a problem. I was just wondering. Of course. I'm talking about real mud, deep and gooey. I guess it just boils down to the question, which does a better job, a 44 tsl or a 39.5 bogger?
P.S.: I'm out of mud bog fliers at this time. I'll get more and get it scanned in and sent your way.

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

TEX 04-13-2000 11:34 AM

Re: building a mud truck
 
<font color=purple>My local tire dealer only looked at a few brands for 9.00X16's, & I didn't have any suggestions for him. We did find a couple of directional tires, but in 19/32's of tread depth. I know there are better ones out there, but didn't know what brand to check into. My Q78 Swampers are 27/32's deep, so I like them a lot (same-size Buckshots are 28/32's deep). Gumbo Mudders (not Buckshots) come in 9.00X16, but only something like 20/32's of tread depth - otherwise I might have tried a pair of those up front with Q78's in the rear.

As to the question of tire choice in a big-ol' slop hole. Definitely the 44's will be the better choice if they're allowed. Ideally, you'd run TSL's up front with Boggers in the back, but if you want a matched set, TSL's all the way around - especially for a heavy truck. You'll get 2" of extra ground clearance under 44's & that's really a big deal, especially since you have a 60 front. I do know two guys making 39.5" Boggers work at all 4 corners, but both are relatively light & very powerful. The first is a Land Cruiser running a 477" roller motor on alcohol & nitrous. He has a 44 front/9" rear, 15X14 Carbon Fibers, 3.07 open front gears, 3.50 spooled rears, TH350/205 & runs 2nd low at 7,800 RPM's. That's roughly 90MPH of tire speed & he actually floats almost as well as a "modified" on cuts would. The other guy is running a nitrous fed 427 Ford FE in a CJ2A & he sits way in the back up against the tailgate. His weighs 2,850 lbs & if he punches it on the starting line, the front comes up. He also floats over the mud real well. We had another guy that used to run a 351C at 9,000 RPM's with 42's on 15X14's running 1st low (C6/205) & 3.50's. That one was 2,800 lbs & floated somewhat, but when he switched the rears to 39.5" Boggers, it didn't float as well - I guess because the tires were smaller. And when he lost momentum, the Boggers would dig big holes while the 42's up front would stay on top. 44" TSL's vs. 39.5" Boggers? I'd go for 44" TSL's myself.</font color=purple>

TEX

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing



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