Miss my Jeep! But it's worth it - Page 4 - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups
Jeep-Short Wheelbase All discussion of short wheelbase Jeeps: CJ, TJ, YJ and JK

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of (permalink) Old 10-24-2001, 07:17 PM
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 3,501
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Miss my Jeep! But it\'s worth it

Their problems not only go back 1000 years, but also back to yesterday and forward to tomorrow.

In all world history, and opressed nation, will band together 100's of small groups, with different ideals and different motives to force out the big nation standing above them.
Unfortunately, one of the major downfalls of man, is that as soon as the big nation is gone, the leading power looks around for someone else to opress.

It can be seen all through history. 90% of the good examples are in the middle east and especially the Balkan states.

Unfortunately what I see now on the news is the US government giving arms and aid to the northern rebels in Afganistan.
Who exactly had this bright idea, and didn't they learn from the first time?
If the US Army invades Afganistan like the Soviets did and the Americans in Vietnam I will be extremely dissapointed, it will prove that no-one is learning the lessons we are being taught.
And don't you dare say "Oh, but we have this new technology, and these new guns, because thats exactly what Kaiser Whillam IInd said before he followed in Nepoleons footsteps and got his ass raped in Russia. It's exactly what Hitler said before sending an entire German army to it's doom on the Eastern Front.

The American Government gave money and weapons to the ancestors of the Taliban, they did it to fight the Soviets.
Now they are facing the same problem, only this time they are fighting their prodigy nation. They are giving money and arms to the people they wish to use to oust the government that the US put there in the first place.
I can say with 100% certainty, that if this happens, the United States will face the same problems 25, 50, 100 years down the road.

It's a known fact that in several middle eastern, african, south american and asian countries that the United States aided corrupt governments in the fight against communism. It came back to bite you in the ass in Cuba and now Afganistan. No doubt other governments have done the same, but it's my belief that this kind of under the table dealing and proping up can go on no longer.
It's time to do it right for a change and start fixing some of the mistakes previous administrations (with the help of the CIA) have made.

With all that said, I belive the most benificial method of fixing this particular one would be too bomb the [censored] out of them. Invade during the summer. Occupy. Then build a non-corrupt (will be a first) democratic government, that is overseen by the United Nations. This government would have a parole period of 5 or 10 years. If ever this government did somthing undesirable, they would be given a chance to fix it (can't always get it right the first time.) If they refuse... start over from square one.

Infernozx is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of (permalink) Old 10-24-2001, 07:38 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 6,517
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Miss my Jeep! But it\'s worth it

<font face="Comic Sans MS">Occupying Afghanistan is a very bad idea... Attempts to occupy Afghanistan is a big part of what killed the Soviets there.. Sure we pumped some weapons into the region, but the fact that they could be easily ambushed and such played an equally big role... When you occupy with a large force, you get your @ss kicked... Happened in Somalia when our forces tried to police them to help the citizens... When that occurs we have major problems...

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Unfortunately what I see now on the news is the US government giving arms and aid to the northern rebels in Afganistan.
Who exactly had this bright idea, and didn't they learn from the first time?
If the US Army invades Afganistan like the Soviets did and the Americans in Vietnam I will be extremely dissapointed, it will prove that no-one is learning the lessons we are being taught.
And don't you dare say "Oh, but we have this new technology, and these new guns, because thats exactly what Kaiser Whillam IInd said before he followed in Nepoleons footsteps and got his ass raped in Russia. It's exactly what Hitler said before sending an entire German army to it's doom on the Eastern Front.

<hr></blockquote>

The previous quote and the following quote seem to contradict eachother:
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

With all that said, I belive the most benificial method of fixing this particular one would be too bomb the [censored] out of them. Invade during the summer. Occupy. Then build a non-corrupt (will be a first) democratic government, that is overseen by the United Nations. This government would have a parole period of 5 or 10 years. If ever this government did somthing undesirable, they would be given a chance to fix it (can't always get it right the first time.) If they refuse... start over from square one.

<hr></blockquote>


You just said invade.. Invade implies occupying territory. We can't do that here. We have to rely on our special forces and the northern alliance (which if you don't know IS the ORIGINAL government in Afghanistan and the OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED government by everywhere now except Pakistan). A large force there will be exactly like Viet Nam was. These people use guerilla tactics and the only way to counter act that is to use guerilla tactics ourselves. This means smallish groups of forces and not occupying anywhere, just sneak in, complete the mission, and get out.

Most of these citizens in these places have been fooled by the local media into thinking the US is trying to kill all of them and they will try to fight back.. That is a big reason not to expose regular military units to that, because they are more vulnerable than a small force that can sneak around undetected and take care of business without presenting a big target themselves...

And about the US supporting various groups, it's also turned out alright. S. Korea for example. It's a chance you have to take, but unless you take a side you have no idea who your friends and enemies are.

About the snake comment, I kill it if it wanders near me, avoid it if it stays put, or shoot it if it starts provoking me.

In fact, now that the Soviet union has destabilized if the soviets had won those areas, they would now be in diasarray also... Meaning more fuel for the fire of their hate, even though nobody is really responsible. There is some interesting info floating around, might be a good idea for everybody (including me) to read through it all... </font>



Tim "Sandman"
The_Sandman_454 is offline  
post #33 of (permalink) Old 10-24-2001, 11:54 PM
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 3,501
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Miss my Jeep! But it\'s worth it

Hmm, I suppose I did contradict myself.

It's been proven that you can not occupy the mountains, but occupying the cities, and open land, where large army's and American soldiers are at their best, isn't imposible. The Soviets did it for a while.
The probelm is that you don't know who your enemy and friends are. Unlike in WW2 where everyone had uniforms, Afganistan would be like Vietnam where the guys wearing black PJ's could be friendly or enemy.
The use of special ops is good, until they start enduring heavy casualties. ($$$$$)
I think this war needs to be won with propoganda. I don't know if it's possible, these people have been told since their birth that Americans are the Devil incarnate.
Also, I wouldn't call S-Korea a victory, there's still an outstanding armistace (positive point.) but at the same time there's still a DMZ on the 38deg paralell.

I'm sure every Arab same as every American can be bought.
Maybe the best way to win this war is to make them such a profitable country, such a rich nation, that they see Americans as their saviors and not enemys.
As found in Vietnam, it really doesn't help if you try to get people on your side, only to go and bomb the crap out of them 20 seconds later because there's a target nearby.

With that said, I would hope the US doesn't stop bombing Afganistan until Bin-laden and the Taliban are dead or gone.

And when people start bitching about the "Smart weapons" only hitting 80%? 60%? (dunno the exact figure) I think the US should spend 24hrs and drop the same $ value of HE iron bombs, and scatter bombs and show how fortunate people are that the US is using "Smart Weapons" instead of the rest of the stuff.

Infernozx is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 02:30 AM
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Miss my Jeep! But it\'s worth it

Psycho's wife here:
First, thanks Joshuwa for at least giving a bit more insight into the situation. I don't know if its true (I'll check on it) but I wouldn't be surprised if it is. In short, thanks for not robotically repeating what the almighty TV says.
And Harold, Harold, Harold. Let's go through this slowly. Go up to your statement under Joshuwa's, look at the word "Free" and then go back a few. In saying that Psycho was "free" to say god-damn [censored] [censored] wholy [censored] cow, you were censored, just like he was, just like I am! How is that free? Just a small example of this country's hypocracy. I know you've heard that word implanted in patriotic song's since 1st grade (we all have) but please ask YOURSELF what freedom truly means. Freedom is never something someone can give you, but some will sure try to inhibit.

As ONE human race, divided we fall.

Oh, and the white on our flag stands for peace.
Who'da thunk!


'85 Scrambler under construction
5.7L Vortec, NV4500, and god knows what.
post #35 of (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 08:49 AM
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Miss my Jeep! But it\'s worth it

I'll not weigh in on the idiocy being pawned off as lessons learned from history...because they are analogies that have no applicability to a nation responding to acts of terrorism. That said, for Psycho's wife, this is a BBS that many people read. It is a site where most of us consider others to be family. In my family, we don't sit down and chat and start 'dropping the F-bomb' as it is said. The reason there is censoring on this BBS is to prevent it from denigrating into meaninglessness when weak minded people find the need to try to offend others through simpleton, rude, barnyard language because they are unable to otherwise state coherent points. If you want to swear, go ahead, just don't do it at my coffee table. There is a time and place for everything. When you drop a T18 on your chest, you swear. When you're on this BBS, with this group of people, you don't. Some people seem oblivious to that distinction. The very, VERY MILD censorship that occurs maintains it. And just FYI, this BBS is not a public site owned or maintained by the gov't. It is private, and run by a company. And part of the freedom our country espouses is that private citizens and companies can run things as they please (to a reasonable extent) on their property. On this BBS, it means that the company maintaining this BBS can prevent the aforementioned simpletons from ruining what many have described as a "family show." So your argument is in applicable, misguided, and foolhardy, just as the arguments of many of your compatriots (and I use that word for irony) in this post are.

I Jeep, therefore I am.
post #36 of (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 10:01 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 521
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Miss my Jeep! But it\'s worth it

Mrs. Psycho...

True and absolute freedom can not exist. If it could, you would be free to rip out my tongue simply because you did not like what I said. Yet in doing so you have taken my freedom away... so who would *really* be free, living in fear?



A perfect world does not exist either. Therefore rules were put in place so reasonable people could live healthy lives in reasonable peace with reasonable freedom. If your definition of reasonable doesn't match mine, good... let us work it out and find a compromise. If your definition of reasonable doesn't match your government's, you can work to change the government's definition - that is a freedom granted to you by those who, with honor, worked and fought and died to earn the right of forming their own government. Or... if you choose not to work toward change, you can move to a place you would agree with more. Sucker punches using civillian transport to destroy civillian buildings - all filled with civillian persons is not acceptable anywhere any way no matter what. No honor exists in that.
To say that any country deserves such an attack for any reason is just silly.

I did not and will not say the U.S. government is perfect, it is not. However, I choose ours over any alternative.


Think what the world would be like if we all held ourselves up under the same microscope lens we use to examine everyone else.

trailisman is offline  
post #37 of (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 10:50 AM
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Miss my Jeep! But it\'s worth it

FarmJeep you beat me to the punch well said.

Take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome