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post #41 of (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 01:07 AM
 
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Re: Drop the bomb and .....

You know whats a whole lot cheaper, and more effective then air-marshals?
Steel Reinforced doors, anyone who has seen the cockpit door knows what I'm talking about. Rip out those chisy ass flimsy doors, and put in a Kevelar/Steel door.

Anything happens on the flight, pilot hits a switch, and the keypad for the door shorts itself. Doesn't open until the plane lands.

Pilots are then ordered not to open the door, no matter what, ever. They kill passangers, he keeps flying. They kill everyone in the back, he keeps flying. If somthing goes wrong, that door locks, and stays locked until the plane lands and the engeneeirs open it.

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post #42 of (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 03:13 AM
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Re: Drop the bomb and .....

How about that AND an air marshall.. so people arent needlessly killed while the pilots are safe? hows that? or do more people need to die for you to understand?

post #43 of (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 07:01 AM
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Re: Drop the bomb and .....

I agree that cockpits should be totally unaccessable from the passenger compartment. The pilots should enter from a trap door under the plane. I am not going to offer a method of retaliation, but I will say that the U.S. needs to do something harsh enough that foreign governments will eradicate and fight terrorism on their home soil. These governments need to fear the U.S. and the allied countries. If it takes leveling the entire country so be it.

On another note, these middle eastern people have been fighting for thousands of years, they have been killig each other forever. Maybe we should just make a parking lot out of the middle east and go into the oil business? Too drastic? I don't think so!

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post #44 of (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 08:10 AM
 
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Re: Drop the bomb and .....

some very good and practical posts lately (mho)... i like the "cockpit= a safe" idea, as well as the air-marshall...

on the sidenote of somebody saying... that the middle east has been fighting for thousands of years... 100% right... and if you think of it in historic terms... they have been fighting 100s of years before columbus even descovered the USofA...

So, why would you get into a fight of a Rottweiler and a Pitbull... both of which with blood in their eyes...

not much to win there... sooner or later one will be alive and the other dead... so be it... but let it be their blood and not ours!

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post #45 of (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 08:50 AM
 
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Re: Drop the bomb and .....

Just my opinion here, SkyMarshalls are a bad idea. Apparently they have been using them for a while, but their numbers are limited.

My point - you are going to put an armed person on the plane - good in theory, but what are you going to arm them with - most likely a gun. Fair enough, but even the dumba$$ terrorists knew not to bring a gun on board. One stray bullet and the whole plane depressurizes.

Also - one skymarshall per plane - 3 - 6 hijackers per plane, who wins - odds are the hijackers - they overpower the skymarshall and suddenly our enemies have a gun.

So if you want skymarshalls I would suggest not giving them weapons, but tactical training, because obviously there are more passengers than hijackers, gang up on them.

I'm getting long winded here, however one more point. Most security measures are meant for "rational" hi-jackers (if there is such a thing), however these people were suicide bombers, no security measures can absolutely protect you from someone that isn't afraid to die.

Just my humble opinion.

Rob

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Anything easy has its cost."
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post #46 of (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 09:19 AM
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Re: Drop the bomb and .....

My idea of a sky marshall will be an un-uniformed man who just sits on the plane like a passenger... has an emergency beeper or something to if anything does go down he can let the outside world know immediately.. he will be armed with stunning devices, like maybe a taser and pepper spray.. not lethal force, but enough so that him and passengers can safely bring terrorists down without endangering the plane... just enough of a chance to fight back... maybe have a locked box with night sticks in it or something... there are solutions

post #47 of (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 09:42 AM
 
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Re: Drop the bomb and .....

i agree,

there are kinds of bullets that can easily knock you out w/o damaging a plane, i could also imagine some kind of "gas" that knocks temporarily everybody (including passengers) out (except the cockpit).

i guess there are means and ways

alfred

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post #48 of (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 09:57 AM
 
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Re: Drop the bomb and .....

Now we are thinking clearly and as a unit. CJ - I like you idea - tasers etc. Still one more problem as I see it. If the terrorists know that there is a skymarshall on every plane, when they start they search all the passengers till they find him, lock him up or kill him, then what.

I guess he could hide all the weapons or something until the time is right. I'm sorta thinking out loud here, trying to figure out something so that 20 years from now, when my kids are flying around by themselves that they will be safe.

Rob

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Anything easy has its cost."
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post #49 of (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 11:37 AM
 
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Re: Drop the bomb and .....

I think you'd be suprised what one randomly placed sky marshal in plain clothes can do if he has a gun with bullets that incapacitate the hijackers yet won't penetrate the hull of the aircraft.
I think there should be no screwing around in an airplane. You follow the rules and stay in your seat. You get up when you aren't permitted then you are at risk of being "controled" by the air marshal. I don't think we would be to inconvienienced or complain too much if they made the rules very strict while flying. No moving around the cabin without permission. You move (get up), you are at risk.
You think that's too harsh? How about the poor innocent people jumping from the top of a burning 110 story building because there is no other options? THAT IS HARSH.
Anyone that complains about inconveniences of any newly activated security should stop and think before they complain.
I think hi jackers might think twice (if they are capable of thinking at all) before they act if they KNOW that somewhere on that plain is at least one armed man that could quickly take out a few men armed with knives.
Also the secure cockpit idea is a good one. Do not open the cockpit no matter what, until the plane is landed.

Dan 84 CJ-7,Weber,HEI. 95 ZJ,V8. http://www.cableone.net/wdohrn
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post #50 of (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 04:45 PM
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Re: Drop the bomb and .....

Here's a really far fetched but seemingly good idea![img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Install the stronger doors like mentioned before, but also install little nozzles on every plane that ejects that sticky foam. Nozzle every one foot or so. The type of foam that has been used in non-lethal weapons videos. It comes out really fast, very thick(about 1.5" in diameter) and stops everything dead in its tracks. Very messy, sticky, impossible to move in, and safest for the passengers. It's like super glue with instant tack.
When the plane is just starting to be hijacked, a pilot hits a button that slams his door shut and partially fills the entire plane(bathroom and everything, except for the pilot's area, with this incapacitating stuff. Not enought to suffocate people though.
I'm sure people could deal with their clothes and luggage being destroyed while their lives are being saved.
I'm sure some of you have seen an example of this stuff on the discovery channel.
What do you think?
Bryan[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

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