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post #1 of (permalink) Old 09-04-2001, 06:01 PM
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Interesting article - winches

Ok, I realize this test was funded by MileMarker, but it makes for interesting reading - especially the wire-rope testing.
http://winchtest.com/
Please don't flame me - I didn't write it.

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 09-04-2001, 06:26 PM
 
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Re: Interesting article

Yes, very interesting. Especially to those with Warn winches. I have an 8274, and just ordered 150ft of 5/16 cable from recoverygear.com. It's not so much the electrical problems that concern me-the wire rope breakage is scary as hell! I'm curious to hear from others "real world experience" and also wonder whether Warn has seen this report and offered a rebuttle. Thanks for the link.



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post #3 of (permalink) Old 09-04-2001, 06:44 PM
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Re: Interesting article

Very interesting.
Now why would Warn suddenly get this winch tested? It has been on the market for a couple of years. Are there some true life failures out there.
Also, this is an expensive winch rated at 9000lbs and advertsed at that. There are no overloads and the cable is obviously undersized. Aside from the obvious safety factor are we not getting what we pay for?

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 09-05-2001, 09:55 AM
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Re: Interesting article

ARCA was concerned about rope strength and now requires 3/8 rope for competition.

post #5 of (permalink) Old 09-05-2001, 10:34 AM
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Re: Interesting article - winches

From what I know, the state park rangers in Oregon got this whole ball rolling. Seems they picked up a bunch of XD9000i winches for their vehicles and started noticing problems with the cables breaking under heavy loads. They went so far as to have the maintenance department pull the power cables to the winches. I saw an "internal" maintenance alert about a month ago that they had up on the site they use to communicate between offices and to their personnel. If I can ever find it I'll post a link.

I have an HS9500i being shipped to me right now. So I am a little concerned, but winch cable breakage is something we are all supposed to be catious about anyway. As soon as I can afford to I want to replace the steel cable with the master pull synthetic line anyway. That stuff is cool as hell. It is strong, but it "stores " no energy. If for some reason it happens to break it doesn't whip like steel or most other types of line, it just falls to the ground.

I don't think I have fully loaded a winch since my east Texas bayou blastin' days pulling each other out of deep gumbo. The type of winching I do now in rockcrawling doesn't really place all that much stress on the cable, but I will continue to use the required caution when working with winch cables just as I always have. Always assume the winch cable might break, and work around it accordingly.

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 09-05-2001, 10:37 AM
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Re: Interesting article - winches

This is interesting. I've been to ATS to see thier testing facility and I know guy that worked for them, so I believe their findings. I also used to sell aircraft cable of various types and 7x7 5/16" galvanized cable was rated with a nomimal break strenght of 9200 lbs and 7x19 5/16" 9800lbs, but the working load limit is much lower on both. I'm not sure what type of cable Warn uses, but it sounds like they need to provide a higher rated cable or lower the rating on the winch.

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 09-05-2001, 12:18 PM
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Re: Interesting article - winches

Just wondering if Milemaker and SuperWinch also use 5/16 cable on their 8-9K winches?
Sounds like everyone should be using 3/8 anyway.
I do think all the winch manufacturers should put in a high current safty shut off. They could do that with a few dollars worth of electronics a large current shunt to sence the current drawn by the motor and a small relay in the remote cable circut. When the current when over some preset current, say 500 Amps, the small relay would open which would open the big relays in the winch.

Also, one thing I read about the synthetic cables was that they shouldn't be used with the newer style planetary type winches with the brakes inside the drums. The heat from the brake cooks the synthetic cable. Its not a problem with the 8274's as the brake is not inside the drum.
Here is the link,
http://www.d-90.com/faq/Winch/WinchLine.html

post #8 of (permalink) Old 09-05-2001, 01:35 PM
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Re: Interesting article - winches

"Rumor on the Street" is that Warn was/is in stiff competition for the defense contract that MileMarker REALLY wants to get. The problem is, if MM gets the contract, hydraulic systems will have to be implemented on the 1 1/4 ton and lower vehicles. I personally started a few winches on fire while NOT under load when I was still in the Corps - just respooling line after teaching vehicle self recovery. That was one of our beefs to the MARCORSYSCOM about the electric winches on the hummers and the new IFAV's. My guess is, is that Mr. Aho is earning his paycheck trying to show that Warn is "no better" that the existing product. I think they should go with the hydraulic winches in the HMMWV and the IFAV myself - they are a little slower, but can run all day and not light up! It takes a lot longer for that hydraulic fluid to start to boil that it does to burn an electric motor up. There are drawbacks to both setups, but you'ld be up the creek in a combat situation with an electric winch dripping off your front bumper! I am sorry, but I am not going to be counting "five seconds pause twenty" with rounds coming down range! If they made the pump to run off Dextron III with a separate reserve tank mounted a litter lower than the winch itself . . . even if you rupture a line - you can field expedient the repair and then steal enough DIII from your tranny, t-case, and power steering to limp back to the rear for repair! Also, this extra reserve could be "borrowed" from if one of the other systems had a problem - usually ruptured PS lines! But hey! What do the DRIVERS of the vehicles know anyway?

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 09-05-2001, 01:44 PM
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Re: Interesting article - winches

I guess I am behind the times . . . .

I just stopped through the MM site, and I see that they DID get the contract for replacement. It's about time! Too bad they are using the existing PS pump! One can only hope that they put a healthy reservoir on it for a reserve for replacement in the event of a ruptured PS line! Otherwise, you'll end up loosing your PS and your winch all at once!



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post #10 of (permalink) Old 09-05-2001, 07:59 PM
 
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Re: Interesting article - winches

I also heard that the rope tends to insulate the drum, whereas steel cable radiate the head away from the drum.


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