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Funny thing happened on the way to the dealership - off top

2K views 54 replies 9 participants last post by  TEX 
#1 ·
I was just at the Ram dealership, looking to find something to tow the Cj /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

A seasoned sales person proceeded to tell me that 4 wheel drive ment power goes to the wheels that grip /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif. I told him hmm, I think it goes to the wheels that slip, he said that was wrong. Ram 4x4 puts power where traction is. I said "really, is it some special 4 wheel drive?" he said no, that was how 4 wheel drive works, and I was misinformed /wwwthreads_images/icons/shocked.gif. When I told him, I owned a CJ /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif, he said oh, ahem, ahem, "I always get that backwards, and I went to school for that too"/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

I wonder how many people out there think 4wd is power to the wheels that grip. Ah I guess it doesn't matter, they probobly will never find out becouse most 4wd vehicle owners like that don't see 4wd /wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif other than maybe snow.

Just thought y'all would get a kick out of it. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

Scott
'85 CJ7______T.H.O.R.
/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif"To Her, OutRageous"
/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif"To Have Off Road"
 
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#2 ·
Ram 4x4 puts power where traction is............ What a dumbarss! 4x4 puts power front & back - don't do nothin' for side to side unless you have limited slip or locker. Did you ask for another salesman - or better yet, another dealer? /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 
#4 ·
/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif In defense of the poor shumuck, let me just say that the myriad of 4 X 4 setup sout there is enough to confuse ANY salesman. Some systems CLAIM to send the power where the most traction is, but the reality is that it often does not do that. Like the new Jeep Grand Cherokee has a system like that in the t-case, but the axles are probably just a trac lock of some kind, and that takes torque to lock up and in ice and snow there IS no torque. It was the same thing when we bought our Grand. I had to TELL the salesman how things actually worked/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif

CJDave
Quadra-Trac modified by the crack moonguy/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif transfer case team.
 
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#5 ·
It's shamefull how little salesmen know about what they're selling. When we went to by our Honda Passport, I asked salesmen about the difference between it and the Isuzu Rodeo. One told me that Honda put in their own engine and front suspension. Another said the entire drivetrain was Honda. Still a third said they used the same parts, but Honda put them together with higher quality standards. THEY WERE ALL WRONG! Isuzu puts the Honda emblems on Rodeos and ships them to Honda dealers where the dealers set the prices for different option setups. Complete BS by all three salesjerks.

 
#6 ·
Whay really gets me is when people don't know if they have a rear wheel drive or a front wheel drive car. For example, this gal friend of mine in Montana wanted to put sand bags in the back of her Geo Metro. I tried to set her straight but I don't think I convinced her that putting them out back wouldn't do a thing.
I think that the guys at the dealerships don't get much training on the finer points of the vehicles they are trying to sell. One exception I've found is at a Land Rover dealership. Those guys seem to get the right traing and the company takes them on four wheelin' trips durring the summer. In my opinion, if the salesman knows what axles are under the vehicles then they are doing good.

Chad

 
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#7 ·
Last year I wanted to have some work done on my stock '83 CJ7 by a local garage. This garage had done several other jobs for me and I trusted them. They told me that they did not have the test equipment to diagnose the problem and suggested that I go to the local Jeep dealership (Eddie Cordes, Lawton, OK). I had bought some emissions parts from Cordes, but had never had the jeep worked on by them. I called to make an appointment and was told that they do not work on old jeeps because "who knows what has been done to it"? AND, I was not an existing customer because they had never worked on the jeep. I told them that the jeep was stock and I had just bought parts from them a few weeks before. It was okay to buy parts from them for my jeep, but they would not work on it. They said their mechanics might spend a long time trying to determine the problem. I said, well don't you CHARGE for this work? Yes, well, but "who knows what has been done to it"? Can you imagine a business turning away business because you are not an existing customer?
When the new jeep wrangler came out back in '95 I went to this same dealership to get a look. They had one in a glassed in room with a locked door. When I asked the salesman to take a look, he said to take a good look - through the window. Yeah, I know, I can not figure out how they stay in business either.
Not really a dealership story, BUT... I was visiting Collins Brothers Jeep in Wylie, Tx a few months ago. I was looking for some CJ parts and parts for a '71 Jeepster Commando. They told me that they only deal in/with '76 and newer Jeeps. When I mentioned that my "71 Jeepster had a non-stock AMC 304 V8 in place of the stock 4 cylinder, the counter guy proceeds to inform me that the '71 COULD have come from the factory with the V8. Excuse me? I do not think the factory would have taken a torch to the front frame crossmember in order to make the engine fit. Plus, I knew the guy that had dropped in the engine. But, hey, he knew all about jeeps, yeah sure.

Well, thanks for letting me vent.

Keith

 
#9 ·
Dave is right.
Unfortunely these sales people I encounter know more about psychology /wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif than what they are selling. I myself am very turned off by this. If I need a freind, I will go to a club, a bar, work anywhere but a car lot! I imagine even other car salesmen would not go to a car lot to find someone interesting to talk to. This seems to be thier job asset.

I want the facts, the info, and if they *-/wwwthreads_images/icons/shocked.gif-* teach me something, I just might buy from them right then and there! I don't like to waste my time on anything other than my jeep (spend 3 hours perfecting a cosmetic thing no one will see but me ) or my family!
-Sorry for the vent..

I can't wait to help my sister buy a brand new TJ. I bet those guys are revved up to do a full court press on the emotional purchase. Better read up on the specs boys ! /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif~

Scott
'85 CJ7______T.H.O.R.
/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif"To Her, OutRageous"
/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif"To Have Off Road"
 
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#10 ·
I can just see Dave and wife listening to the dealer jaw about the 4wd system...After about 5 minutes, Dave interrupts. Moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/shocked.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[exclamation] jump out of Dave's pocket, across the salesman's desk, and proceed to explain how it really works. Dave goes for a coffee, and returns to find that the moonguys have that salesman in a coverall, lying under a Grand, back in the shop....

Talk about us farmers having nothing to do!!! You're the one selling jeeps to the salesman!

Evolution of tools: stone, hammer, wrench, socket, impact, really big hammer, blue wrench.
 
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#11 ·
Talk about us farmers having nothing to do!!! You're the one selling jeeps to the salesman!

================================================================================
/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif CUTE farm jeep had to laugh/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif He got you Dave /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
================================================================================
I have found that to buy the truck you want you have to study up and go head
to head with the salemen.And that is before you even get to talk price. I 'm probobly alone on this one but I fine no joy in buying new or old trucks. Just as soon take a beating.
Alot of people pay alot of money for what they know
nothing about . All they know is that it is NEW.
 
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#12 ·
Just to attempt to defend the helpless schmucks that sell cars... After a life loving everything automotive, being a Jeep freak for the last 15 years, spending 5 years as an engineer in the auto industry and the past 6 months unemployed, I succumbed - I now work as a salesman at a Ford dealership in my podump hillbilly town because I choose to live here. There is ABSOLUTELY no training offered by the dealership on product - only on sales technique. And, I'm not sure who wrote it, but you're right - your average car salesperson knows MUCH more about psychology than the vehicle - BUT, the average consumer doesn't want to know what 4 wheel drive does or how it works, just do I have it. Seriously, folks, the average consumer doesn't understand how to program a freakin' VCR - how can we expect them to know how a transfer case or a locking differential works?!?! Occasionally, I am refreshed by finding a customer who not only knows the difference between his ass and a hole in the ground, but one who may even have a clue what a locker is and why you would want it. Those are few and far between, lemme tell ya... So, if you want an intelligent salesman - and I have access to new Jeeps as well as most any brand - come to the hills of Kentucky and I'll teach you about crumple zones, safety cells, seat proximity sensors, and dual-stage airbags. Or, we can jump in my beat up little Wrangler and go wheelin'... By the way, that was not a serious plug for business - no one take offense!

Jason Perkins
90 YJ soft top
It'll be a real Jeep someday...
 
#13 ·
I have yet to find a Jeep dealer that knew more about my Jeep than me. And I am learning a lot from reading this board. I actually did find a dealer that let me go thru their wiring diagrams myself when they didn't know the answer. I was pretty impressed with the Acura dealer when I bought my Integra. They had the patience to let me ask 100 questions and spend 30 minutes going over every inch of the car before I bought it. The only flaw they made was saying the Integra was just as good in snow as my Jeep, yeah, right.

 
#14 ·
You guys are looking at this all wrong. I bought a 95 2500 454 4x4 Suburban LT about six months ago. The truck has a ProComp lift, Weld Wheels, and all the HD upgrades available; the best part is the dealer was clue less as to what they had and let it go for a 1500 2WD price. Enjoy their stupidity of the vehicle and watch your ass on the finances. Most people don't know a lug nut from a set of nuts, so what ever the sales guy says people believe.

WildCJ5
 
#15 ·
You guys are looking at this all wrong.

The salesmen aren't supposed to know a lot about the vehicles, sure about the general vehicle, but if you want to know more, do like I do and talk to the mechanics. When looking over a new vehicle, I talk to the salesman, then walk out back, grab one of the mechanics and start talking turkey. Believe me, they're glad to have you talk to them. I have learned more from them about a particular vehicle than anyone else at a dealership. When we were looking to trade in the '94 Rodeo on the '95 Trooper, the salesman was a bonehead, didn't know one end from the other (except our payment only increased $20 for the same term). After talking to the mechanic, we were sold. He pointed out the little items like skid plates in different areas, shock positions, driveshaft placement, motor improvements, beefier axle, and tips to get more performance from the vehicle in general. Unfortunately he doesn't work at the dealership anymore, don't know where he went, but in 60K he was on the only one I'd let touch the vehicle. Oh yeah, if you want to see a funny expression, tell the salesman all vehicles go good on the road, you want to see how it goes off-road. Our salesman was having kittens when we took the test drive "off the beaten path" so to speak.

I have also been out with East Coast Rover http://www.eastcoastrover.com and the dealership actually takes vehicles and buyers on the runs. Of course, the owner beat up a new Discovery on a course, we were joking about the "trail special" deal he'd cut us on a slightly used one (sticker in the window said $50K and it had a bunch of dents by the end of the day).

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7"Lift/33"TSL's/IHC D44's 4.10's Lock'd
 
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#16 ·
I spent 6 hours at the dealership haggling over the used Ford Taurus I bought my girlfriend. SIX HOURS! When it was all said and done, the dealership took the same terms I had offered them in the first 5 minutes of negotiation. They wound up giving me 1500 more than my trade was worth, dropped the sticker price of the car $2500 and gave me free oil changes for 2 years, 50% off parts and labor on unwarranted repairs and a discounted extended warranty! It took six hours, but I got the car she wanted at the price I wanted. The salesman looked beat.. I mean he looked like he was gonna curl up and die by the time I was through..

I think they were just dying to get that stock, mint 84 Monte Carlo SS I was driving at the time..

Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..
 
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#17 ·
Carl, I never understand why dealers have to fight & fight like that. Isn't it better to make $500 off 100 cars than to make $1,000 off 30 cars?

First car I ever bought that was expensive enough for a loan I knew exactly what I wanted to spend & found a car on a lot about a grand higher. We finally got down to the final $15.xx between my last offer & their supposed "bottom price". So, I said okay & stood up. The salesman said, "Do you mean to tell me you'd walk out over $15?!" So, I said, "Do YOU mean to tell me you'd LET me walk out over $15?!" The look on his face was the same one you get when you realize your fly is open & you have no underwear! That was a good car./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

BTW, actually spent a very short time selling used trucks & was told that it's more important to let the customer think they're always right than to know what you're talking about. That didn't sit well with me, needless to say. I was a terrible salesman - agreed with the customers more than my boss! /wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif Hope I never have to do that again.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 
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#18 ·
I agree Tex. I don't know if other states are doing this, but about 6 major dealerships here got bought out by "Autoway" (used to be AutoNation USA). Anyway, they have a HUGE selection of used cars and their prices are at least $1500 below what you'd find anywhere else. No haggling though. The price marked is the price you pay. No ifs ands or butts. It's a great idea, the problem is that the salesmen know even less about the cars they are selling because they are basically just order takers and paper pushers. You have to do your research, find the car you want and they'll do the math on the financing. It's like a self serve used car lot!

Oh yeah.. the big catch is that alot of these cars are lease buy-backs or were rental cars! Not for me!

Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..
 
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#19 ·
I just bought the wife a new Accord on Saturday. I offered the same price to three different dealers (an advertised price) and they all tried to tack on extras every time. Yuck I don't want to do that again for a long time! I got the price I wanted, but it took a lot of my time. You would think in the age of On-line purchases you could walk in and say, “This is what the vehicle is worth.” “I can buy it for this price.” “Do you want to sell it?” Then it would be over in an hour or two. It took 6 hours for me too! And that was from the guy I bought it from not the two previous dealers I walked out on for changing the price. It is a good thing there are about 10 Honda dealers in the South Bay Area.
I like my 83 I think it will suit me fine for a long time.


Pete 83CJ7,4.2MPI,T18,all locked up, 96YZ250
 
#20 ·
As sad as it is, you see alot of it in sales, /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif not just limited to Jeep sales. You know, sales people who really know little to nothing about the product their pushing. /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Now I can see why a salesman is not mechanically inclined enough to understand how the transfer of torque typically puts power to the wheel with the least traction, but hell that's why he's a car salesman. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

I've got one for ya. I went into one of the local Jeep dealers and ask for a test drive in one of their new TJ's and he said "What?" with that real puzzled look on his face./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif I said" One of those TJ's there on the side" pointing out the window. Once again he said " whud ja call it?" I says "one a dim thar ranglurs"/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif I then proceeded to explain to him that he not only had TJ's on his lot but XJ's and ZJ's as well. As you can guess it took me all of about 30 seconds to determine that this was a lost cause and could he just get the keys so I could show him which one I wanted a closer look at.

Wish these guys at least new the names of what they're selling! /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

RocknCJ /wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif
Good judgment comes from bad experiences, bad experiences comes from bad judgment.
 
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#21 ·
I do all my haggling on my used stuff now. Sell my old stuff outright (knowing what the dealer will give, I try to get more, but will settle for same), then go to the dealer to buy outright (new or used cars). I make one offer & if they jack around, I'm gone. Sooooooo much easier than how I used to do it. Found one dealer that really caters to my practice & I'll probably never buy a new car/truck from anyone else. And I prefer to buy used ones there. Could tell I'd found the right place the first time I went there. The wife & I were waiting for a specific salesman on a friend's recommendation. We were interested in the brand-new Chevy Malibu & they had just gotten a few in. Another salesman asked if we'd been helped & we explained that we were waiting for the other guy. He noticed us checking out one of the Malibus on the lot & asked if we'd driven one yet. When we said, "no" he said he'd be right back. Couple minutes later, he tossed us the keys. Never asked to see a license or even ask our names /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif! They didn't offer us much for our trade (wasn't running & I brought it in on a trailer), so I said "forget the trade, let's just talk cash deal (got $500 more for it couple weeks later). Here's how I want the car outfitted, give me your bottom line". He shot me a good price & we were done. I asked "where do I sign?". He said, "Oh, we won't worry about that. If you change your mind, we'll just put it on the lot & someone else will buy it". And he was dead serious. That place is so laid back, you'd half expect to be greeted by salesmen in bib overalls! The Malibu has been a really good car, BTW.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 
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#22 ·
You guys might like car lot I work at. The boss knows I love to sell Jeeps (and talk Jeeps and
drive Jeeps etc) so he always keeps some in stock for me. I have a place where we test them
off road. I got a 99 powerstroke F350 4x4 stuck there a while back.
And regarding what salespeople know about cars, the average customer does not care for any
technical info. They want something that drives nice and looks good. When I talk about axle ratios
people get confused. When I talk about payment and warranty they understand much better.
It can be a fun job if you don't stress or take yourself too seriously.
Gibby




~Someone's got to keep the bastards on their toes~
-HST
 
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#23 ·
I just purched a new GMC 1500 4x4 truck and the way I did it was to do all my homework. I got all the info from the web I could find and printed it out I highlighted the dealers price on the truck and all the options i wanted at dealer price. I mailed this off to 4 different GMC dealers in the area attn fleat managers three called back saying they could do the deal if i added $2000.00 profit to the order and one called back and said he would take the deal as written. He was the owner of the dealership and told me if he orederd a truck
and sold it the factory would let him order an other equiped the same so they have to prove to the factory they can move the upper end trucks and he would make all the profit f
 
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#24 ·
One way to avoid spending 6 hours at a car dealer is to walk in the door a half hour or so before they close. If you know what
you want and tell the sales person your ready to buy you can usually expedite the process. I bought my last car at 7:30 pm
on a friday night. I drove off in a new Honda civic in 45 mins. The dealerships will be willing to work with you in order to make
one more sale for the day.



 
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#25 ·
I sure have gotten a kick out of reading this string of posts. Seems like everyone out there knows the best way to sell Jeeps or cars or whatever. Isn't it a damn shame that the 14,000 new car dealerships out there are run by a bunch of drooling morons? I mean, after reading these posts, it's obvious to me that anybody who knows what axle is under a TJ ought to be able to do a much better job running a dealership than the clueless idiots out there who are trying to do it, right? Well, I'm a franchised new car dealer. I sell Mercedes, Buicks and Jeeps. I don't do this because I'm too stupid to do anything else for a living. I do this because I need to feed my family and, not incidentally, also because I happen to love cars. Let me tell you - it ain't easy. Let's talk about the sales department. I have to stock 4 million dollars worth of cars and trucks so I have a "representative" inventory. I pay about 9% APR interest on that 4 mil - and these vehicles are getting close to obsolete every day with the approach of the new model year. Then, anyone with more IQ than a can of squash can do a little research to find out EXACTLY what I paid for that vehicle. Then, I'm supposed to sell that car for my cost (or a couple hundred over) with which I am obligated to pay my floorplan, the title girl, my office staff, the power bill, advertising, rent, the salesman, etc. - and then have enough money left over for myself to make justify the huge investment I've made in land, facilities and inventory - and dealing with all the headaches. Ninety-nine percent of the folks out there who buy Jeeps don't give a rat's ass about diffs or lockers or whether the vehicle is called a TJ, YJ, CJ or BJ. You tell me. If it was your job to sell them (plus the fifteen or twenty other models my guys sell) would you spend a lot of time memorizing this stuff? The manufacturers don't even supply us with this info! Anybody who asks these kind of questions is usually just showing off his own knowledge anyway. And I really liked the post about how "cheap" AutoNation sells their used cars! It is a well documented fact in the industry that their cars are $1500 to $2000 HIGHER than a comparable car anywhere else in town! Their wholesale buyers used to stand at the auctions with their hands in the air buying cars for the highest bid just to fill those big lots! I say "used to" because Mike Jackson (AutoNation CEO) just closed down almost all the AutoNation used car superstores for lack of profit (and customers)! Now, let me apologize for venting like this. I know that some dealers out there are jerks who care nothing for their customers (or employees). But I know that many are like me - enthusiasts who try their best to serve the interests of their customers, treat their employees like family and, yes, even make a profit somewhere down the line. If you don't feel comfortable with the attitide you're getting from a salesman - ask to speak to the dealer. If he doesn't work at the dealership or is too busy to see you, go elsewhere. When you find a salesman or dealership you trust, work with them. Be firm about getting a good price, but don't be ridiculous. If the dealership lets you "walk" over a few bucks, trust me, you're trying to buy the car too cheap. Let him make a little and it will come back to you in spades when you have a service concern or need a favor. And if you're ever in Gainesville, Florida and want to talk Jeeps - I mean REAL Jeeps - stop in to my Jeep dealership and ask to speak to Eric, the owner. I'll be glad to show you my cherry '72 CJ5 Renegade V8 with original paint, interior and some serious off-road hardware. Oh, and I do know the difference between a Detroit Locker and a Detroit hooker.

RenegadeV8
 
#26 ·
You have a good point, we shouldn't judge too harshly until we've walked a mile in your shoes.

However...

From personal experience I have not found any dealerships (traveled the whole state) that are "willing to work with me" on anything. If there were, no matter what type of vehicle they sold, I'd buy one. That's why these dealerships that sell for one price, no haggling, are getting such rave reviews. People don't want to dicker and fight, they want to buy a car.

It's true most people don't want to know, or care about, the rear axle ratio, but for those of use who do, it makes a big difference. When ordering our TJ we were told we couldn't get a few of the options and they had never heard of a 3.55 ratio being offered. I was just some shmoe off the street and knew more than the salesmen, which immediately makes me wonder what I'm doing in the dealership. It's their job, they're supposed to be the experts. Are they just selling stuff to push it out the door or do they really care enough to learn what they're selling. The most impressionable salesman was a person that worked at Charlie's Motor Mall in Augusta, his name was Napa (no joke) and he was the most honest person I'd dealt with. We were looking for a reliable cheap used car to throw a lot of miles on for work. He went through the lot saying how this one had this wrong with it and that one had that wrong, he even pointed out the flaws in the one I finally looked at. It was refreshing to speak to someone so honest. I knew what the problems with the car were and was willing to buy it anyway. When we got to the financial portion of it, he left and some bonehead took over, lying across the board. Turned me off so we left, eventually bought a car private sale.

I understand the dealerships are there to make a profit. It's what you're in business to do. All people are looking for is honesty, a decent price, no fighting, and a Service Department that will stand behind them and not rake them over the coals. It's honesty people look for the most, we're tired of being lied to. Here's a suggestion, open your books to a person buying a car. Explain to them what it cost you and why you can't sell it under a certain price. Of course, then the floating profit on each car will be eliminated, but you'll probably sell more of them and move them off the loat quicker, reducing the 9% margin.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7"Lift/33"TSL's/IHC D44's 4.10's Lock'd
 
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