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post #1 of (permalink) Old 05-01-2000, 02:57 PM
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co2 tanks, chuffers, and long travel slip yokes

Hey guys,
Took my rig out for the first time after swapping in grand wagoneer d44s with detroits and 4.88s, lifting another 2 inches (now 6 susp and 1 body), doing a shackle reversal, and going to 35 X 15.5 swamper sxs.

Overall I'm very pleased with the results. Still some minor wrinkles to be ironed out - have to reposition drag link slightly, front driveshaft needs more slip yoke travel, fender flares are getting eaten by the tires - but overall it went very well.

Once thing which is going to be a problem, though - airing down and up. I noticed that it takes a LONG time to air these puppies down (admittedly, the tire guys inflated them to 30 psi, whereas normally I would run them about 20 psi on the steet, I think). I ran them at 16 psi on the trail because that was all I dared air them down given that there was no convenient place to air up again at the end of the trail - also I was getting tired of waiting. At that much psi they don't flex much. Also, swampers are very very load when run at 16 psi on the hwy. They did work EXTREMELY well given that they weren't aired down much, though.

So anyway, I went to my local air liquid dealer to see if I could set myself up with a co2 system similar to what is in the magazines. Tank rental pretty cheap, gas pretty cheap, but finding a regulator that would give out enough psi without freezing was very expensive. Has anyone set up their own co2 system, and if so what was your experience as far as what regulator to use?

Also, someone else suggested a device that was around a long time ago called a 'tire chuffer'. This is a hose which you screw into one of your spark plug holes, then start your engine and it pumps air into your tire. Anyone had any experience with one of these? Are they available, or make-your-own?

On board air would be nice, but I'm looking for a simpler solution - mainly because I'm TEMPORARILY tired of spending all my spare time under a no longer running jeep.

Lastly, I'm looking for the parts to have a long travel slip yoke made for my front drive shaft. I took it to the local driveline shop, but he cannot come up with the parts that will give me a LOT more travel - he thinks he can get me 1 or 2 inches more travel with standard parts (which I guess is all he has). Someone suggested the slip spline from a John Deere PTO driveshaft, which is 3 feet of travel (!!), but this turned out pretty expensive also. The driveshaft guy is still looking at it, but I'm wondering if anyone has had any experience swapping in a slip yoke from something else without going the tom-woods-lotsa-travel-but-lotsa-bucks-too route.

Thanks.

Regards,

Chad



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post #2 of (permalink) Old 05-01-2000, 03:45 PM
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Re: co2 tanks, chuffers, and long travel slip yokes

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Well, Chadwick.....you could opt for a on-board compressor from JC Whitney....they have some with tanks and so forth that seem to have good volumne. The tire "chuffer" is one way, but it takes time to hook up and that's no fun when the engine is hot. On-board air with a York compressor isn't exactly easy to set up, but after this experience can you see why guys go to the trouble to do it? Hmmmmm.....?[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 05-01-2000, 03:58 PM
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Re: co2 tanks, chuffers, and long travel slip yokes

I'm not sure if the John Deere idea would work or not...they're pretty heavy duty, but getting it balanced would be a PITA. Of course, they do have nice u-joints on the ends, and you could easily adapt one to that service. To find one cheap, start looking for farm salvage yards (there are a few on the internet, I think) and tell them the length you need, and they will check for you. You'll need the absolute minimum compressed length, and probably the maximum length as well... Should be much cheaper than buying new.

I've never heard of that "Chuffer" idea. I wonder what happens to the fuel that you pump into the tire. I can't figure out exactly how it would work on a 4 stroke engine. It seems as though the engine wouldn't work correctly. Say you've got 20 psi in the tire, and it's plumbed to the spark plug hole...when the intake valve opens and the piston drops, I think it would suck air out of the tire full of 20 psi, instead of sucking air out of the intake valve which is at less than 1 psi. It seems like it would never be able to fill the tire. I would think that you'd have to have a 1 way valve of some sort on the spark plug hole...but when the piston is on the 3rd stroke (where the gas would normally combust---piston going down and both intake/output valves shut) I think bad things could happen...that engine would be making a lot of vacuum with no air coming in and the piston dropping. I would think that, in order for this to work, you'd have to hook up to the exhaust manifold somehow, instead of the spark plug hole...but you'd have to hook to a cylinder that was "dead" (i.e. no spark, no combustion) or you'd burn up hose/tire/etc. And that connection would have to be directly to one exhaust port...I guess if you hooked to the manifold, you'd just vent the tire out the exhaust. Sounds like a no go on the chuffer, eh?

Not sure about the CO2. The only way to prevent the regulator from freezing would be to warm up the liquid before it is regulated, right? And to do that, whatever was doing the warming would be exposed to the _____(2000???)psi that the tank is holding. Sounds pretty hairy. If you're going to run that many psi, I'd think you'd want to just invest in a very good regulator and attach it directly to the tank. If you're committed to the CO2, then the quality regulator would be the way to go. If you're not, than onboard air is hard to beat. Without anything in your profile, I can't say how hard it would be to rig up an AC compressor, but whatever you have, an electric compressor is easy (albeit slow).

Can't handle spending time under a non-running jeep? That's HERESY!!! You could be drawn and quartered by 4 fully functional, fully locked Jeeps. Best not tell anyone about your TEMPORARY paralysis.

Evolution of tools: stone, hammer, wrench, socket, impact, really big hammer, blue wrench.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 05-01-2000, 04:14 PM
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Re: co2 tanks, chuffers, and long travel slip yokes

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] First of all Farmjeep.....I want you to send me a buck for every time that as a dirty, dusty little farm kid I unscrewed a spark plug and screwed the chuffer in to the V8 engine of our '35 Ford pickup so we could pump up a tire on the drag scraper or the John Deere, or the caryall$$$[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]$$$$ THEN....I'll explain how it works[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] You see, Deano...the chuffer only works on the intake and compression stroke. The chuffer fitting has an inlet check valve and the air to fill the tire comes from THAT, NOT the carb/intake manifold. So when the intake stroke comes, the piston goes down, and even though the intake valve opens, the intake manifold vacuum actually draws air FROM the cylinder rather than allow fuel/air mixture to invade it. The cylinder sucks clean cool fresh air in through the chuffer fitting, and both the intake valve and the chuffer spring-loaded inlet check valve close when the piston reaches the bottom. Then the compression stroke is the air pump.....the power stroke is wasted sucking in air that mostly goes out the exhaust...then the intake stroke comes again and the process repeats itself. In the old days we had many more flathead engines, so installing the chuffer was easier[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]BOY! Does THAT bring back the "old days"[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 05-01-2000, 04:18 PM
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 05-01-2000, 05:04 PM
 
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Re: co2 tanks, chuffers, and long travel slip yokes

Chad
The CO2 set ups work very well, especialy for the role of filling up tires at the end of the run. There biggest drawback is that when they are empty they are empty. So in my opinion there should be a redundant air supply even if its just a good 12volt. The 1st CO2 system I aquired through the company thst distributes Power Tank. It was about $329 with the regulator,tank and mount. The recent ones I have put together for freinds have been quite a bit cheaper. A used 10 lb tank from a CO2 supplier will cost about $45, the regulator was harder to find, I couldnt find a CO2 reg with over 60 psi output. So the a fellow 4 wheeler who works at a welding supply suggested using nitrogen, and he put together a complete set up for me to try, the supplied air(nitrogen) has no moisture in it, doesnt come out cold,and regulators are easy to aquire, but they dont hold as much energy in a given size tank. It seems like it should because they can fill it to higher psi than CO2, but we werent getting as many fill up as on CO2 for the same size. Maybe someone can fill me in on the differences. So back to the CO2 problem of aquiring a usable regulator at an affordable cost. We finely settled on an Oxygen regulator(160 psi out put)(it needs to have a replaceable tank fitting at the regulator input. Then we swapped a CO2 tank fitting in place of the Oxygen fitting. The 2 I have built have held up fine so far. Mounting brackets are fairly easy to invent, use polyuretahane coiled hose, (dont use nylon they crack very easily when cold). On my set up I have arranged my plumbing so that my tank can be quick connected to my ARB system with a regulator. The ARB output(or anyone elses compressor) can also be quick connected to my CO2 tank in the event I needed to build up enough air to set a bead or whatever. The CO2 tank could run my ARB for a month of wheelin, and it can fill up 35x12.50-15 from 4 psi to 25 psi in about 60 - 75 seconds. On a cold humid night though, the air chuck can get so frosted that it'll give you problems(wont seat well on the stem, wont shut off when removed from the stem,etc). I usually mount my tank behind the spare tire, where a gas can would normally go, but I have a nother spot to mount it inside when the spare is mounted on the roof for rock crawling(the rear tire mounted on the back, ruins my geometry for a great angle of departure).

Jeff
89 Wrangler
If at first you dont succeed, your replacement will try and try again.
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 05-01-2000, 05:50 PM
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Re: co2 tanks, chuffers, and long travel slip yokes

Chad:
On the slip yoke issue, I just saw a blip in 4 Wheel & Off Road's June issue (pg. 84) about a new slip yoke that gives you 7" of working travel. It might be an option for you. The company is called Gloeco Inc., 800-845-6326 and should be available to your driveline shop.
Shain

post #8 of (permalink) Old 05-01-2000, 06:23 PM
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Re: co2 tanks, chuffers, and long travel slip yokes

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] By screwing a special filling as described above into a spark plug hole, it converts one cylinder of an engine to a piston-type air compressor. The hose included with the chuffer then goes to the tire as to inflate. Very basic. [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 05-02-2000, 11:51 AM
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Re: co2 tanks, chuffers, and long travel slip yokes

Anyone know where to buy a chuffer? I've been unable to find one.

BHT
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 05-02-2000, 12:09 PM
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Re: co2 tanks, chuffers, and long travel slip yokes

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] The last one we bought new, my Dad purchased at Western Auto Supply in 1953[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] JC Whitney doesn't show one in the catalog. Everything's electric now. A chuffer is no real solution to air-up-after-trail.....MUCH too slow. You could read War and Peace while you waited to air up four big tires[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
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