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post #1 of (permalink) Old 04-28-2000, 11:52 AM
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More lessons learned... York on an older CJ (long)

Last night I finally got my York air compressor mounted on my 75 CJ5 w/258. My install seemed to take a little more work than others that I have seen on the web. All brackets and pulleys came from a 1980 Eagle and a 1982 Eagle.
Problem 1:
The 1980 Eagle that I scavenged the compressor brackets did not have the idler pulley, so when I left the junkyard I thought I had all the brackets that I needed. Get home, clean everything up, get it installed and realize I am missing something to tighten up the compressor belt. Back to the junkyard (25-30 miles one way).
Problem 2:
Got the idler pulley and now find out that there isn't a belt which drives my water pump pulley. The old setup drove the water pump from the front groove on the crank and now it needs to be driven from the rear groove on the crank. Unfortunately my water pump pulley isn't a double groove, so back to the junkyard for a new one with the right location.
Problem 3:
Get the water pump pulley installed and it still doesn't line up with the crankshaft groove. At the same time I notice that the power steering pulley is off enough to possibly cause problems. Before this, the belt ran from the crank right to the PS pump (which came off a 79 Wagoneer) and it was long enough a distance that alignment was close enough. Now the distance from the water pump pulley to the ps pump is so small that I need to change the pulley on the PS pump. I also noticed that the grooves in my crankshaft pulleys aren't really wide enough for the belts I bought and I'm worried about throwing a belt. Back to the junkyard for a PS pulley, crankshaft pulleys (harmonic balancer) and to measure the water pump on the Eagle.
Problem 4: Got the new harmonic balancer (with pulleys) and a new PS pulley and found that indeed the Eagle water pump doesn't stick out as far as my stock water pump. Got a water pump fron NAPA for an '80 Eagle, everything is reinstalled and lines up perfectly. It's getting late though, and I am hurrying to get the radiator put back in (had to pull it to get the old harmonic balancer off with the puller). It's now bolted in and I am filling it back up with fresh coolant and something is dripping on the floor where the lower hose attaches. Checked the clamp, it's fine. Turns out that in my haste I cracked the joint where the hose inlet connects to the lower tank. Out comes the radiator for a trip the the rad. shop for a boiling out, rodding, and re-soldering of the joints. At least now I know that my radiator will be in good shape for a trip to Moab on Memorial Day weekend.

I looked at my buddies '78 CJ this morning and he already has all of the correct pulleys, the right routing and belt location that I needed. Also, his water pump has the right distance from the block to the pulley mounting flange. I would suspect that any CJ's newer than his also have the correct setup. I have noticed that none of the websites are for installs on a CJ as old as mine, so I'm not surprised that I was caught off guard with the glitches I encountered. All in all, it was worth the four trips to the junkyard. So today I will take my radiator in and I can get all the air lines plumbed and the electrical in while I wait for the repairs. Hopefully all the hard stuff is over.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 04-29-2000, 03:28 AM
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Re: More lessons learned... York on an older CJ (long)

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Hmmmm.....we are having some similar difficulties with the Air-On for our '79 CJ7 304 V8. My moonguys[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] worked all day yesterday on it and there were some fit-up problems as well. We are using a long stroke York from a diesel truck, and the stock AMC bracket that ataches right to the engine block and the front of the head. The compressor is double-groove and is supposed to use the two rearmost grooves in the three-groove pulley group on the crank and on the water pump. For some reason we are back about 1/4" from center with the compressor pulley, and with the cast bracket, there is not really any way that it can possible happen except perhaps the double groove clutch itself is slightly different from the ones used by AMC, and has less forward "projection".....which puts the pulley grooves slightly aft of where they need to be. We are considering making some shims which would go between the bracket and the block to get the forward spcing that we need. Our alternator basically "floats" on the long bolt to the head, so we just add and subtract spacers to get it where it needs to be. We would rather use a different clutch(two-groove) if we can find the right one, rather than space the bracket forward.......the bolts are long enough as it is.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]Anyone know about this clutch business? ARE there different projections in the two-groove clutches?[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 04-29-2000, 07:51 AM
 
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Re: More lessons learned... York on an older CJ (long)

yep Dave, lots of different stickouts, Im pretty sure youll need one from an AMC born YORK, to go with those AMC brackets!

$69.99 at local Autozone
$22 bearing to replace, and press to restore an old one. the part # for the bearing is listed under Ford AC products, and the coil to engage the elecmag clutch should fit all yorks/pulleys..

good luck!


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post #4 of (permalink) Old 04-29-2000, 11:12 AM
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Re: More lessons learned... York on an older CJ (long)

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] My suspicions were correct......THANKS Matt. BTW....the stock A/C bracket for the AMC V8 was a better setup than a lot of other makes that I've used. Strong....easy to install....I think our two compressors will piggyback ok. We did not get any bolts with the brackets, and we are measuring and noting each bolt one at a time so we get good thread engagement. We are also using a product called NO-OX on the water pump bolts to prevent siezure in the aluminum......we BARELY got the ones that were in there out....it was a real squeaker. This engine was built...driven coast to coast....and sat for four years. We are actually making some studs so we can install the water pump separately, THEN add the accessories to the outer ends of the studs. We are making a "detachable" on-board air with the two compressors.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 04-29-2000, 12:04 PM
 
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Re: More lessons learned... York on an older CJ (long)

good idea Dave,

do you happen to have any diagrams, or a list of bolts and their respective lengths needed?

Im putting a set up together for Deano, and i dont really want to have to pull my engine from storage and take it all apart.



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post #6 of (permalink) Old 04-29-2000, 01:22 PM
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Re: More lessons learned... York on an older CJ (long)

Oh, I'm not worried about figuring out the bolt lengths, sizes, and threads...I can figure that out with a little time in front of the bolt bins...I just wanted to see how the compressor looks when mounted to a v-8...all I can find are 258 pictures...wanted to see how the bracket is oriented, and how the compressor is oriented in a stock position...so I know which holes to line up where and how without spending too much time scratching my head. You certainly don't have to worry about pulling apart your setup to help me...but thanks. Certainly showing some jeeper spirit there, Ozark...

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 04-29-2000, 05:22 PM
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Re: More lessons learned... York on an older CJ (long)

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I can tell you Deano, that they figured it close to the engine. There is only a tiny space remaining between the compressor and the head/intake/block, but it's a nice arramgement. Two of the bolts are 7/16" N.C. the rest are 3/8" N.C. We had to fab up a hangar to catch the front end of the alternator hangar bolt. Our brackets were for the other alternator. There is a spacer for the upper RH water pump bolt, but the rest is flush with the block. Luckily, we have abandoned the heater water inlet on the side of the water pump, so we don't have the problem of the hose interferring with the alternator. Our new setup uses the thermostat outlet to feed the heaters, and the top outlet on the water pump as the heater return. We have NOT tried this yet, so I cannot positively guarantee it works, but I think it will be a superior system in various ways. We are going to have to thread down and trim to get exactly the right bolts for some of the spots because we want no less than full thread engagement....about 3/4" in most cases....And as I mentioned we will be making double-enders for the water pump in at least two places to use a nut...then the accessory...then washer...then nut. I'm from the diesel school so I use a lot more studs than most would....like our exhaust manifolds are all studs and double nuts....one oversize, one regular.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]There IS one little glitch, however, and that is the top RH bolt that attaches the bracket to the head.....a bolt which is 7/16"....and that same bolt suspends the alternator so it can swing....and the alternator is bored 3/8" as they usually are[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] SOOOO......we have a choice between making a double-ended threaded spacer with 7/16" internal thread on one end, and 3/8" internal thread on the other, OR...boring out the alternator[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif[/img] The spacer would thread onto a 7/16" stud out of the head, and will act as a nut(we will make it from HEX stock)to hold the cast bracket against the block, and then the 3/8" bolt will go through the alternator hangar...the alternator itself...and then thread into the special spacer. If I bore the alternator, it will be "special" and a few years from now when the Klintunoidgorinskyrenoites are chasing down Jeep owners it would not be possible to just jump a fence and steal an alternator from some unsuspecting member of the cowered, controlled, commie-American population at large.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 04-30-2000, 12:23 AM
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Re: More lessons learned... York on an older CJ (long)

WOW!! I sure am glad my on board air system was a straight up install. Then again my jeep originally had air conditioning so I had all the parts. Here is another tidbitg of info. The 304's with and without air used different sets of pullys on the water pump and crank. If you have a two belt pullly on the water pump and need a three groove then you have to swap the bottom too since the three groove is bigger and will hit the lower pully. It's been a while since I did my swap so I don't remember all the perticulars on the it.
The heater hose on a 304 with the compresser runs between the compressor and the alternator. This is BAD!! It is so tight that it rubs between them. I made this worse by using larger heater hoses. I had to wrap them in another piece of hose and stuff it between them.
The air lines Nickled and dimed me all the way to the poorhouse!! I did a rather involved system though. Compressor,pop off, pressure switch, oil and water filter, 2.5 gallon air tank under the jeep, rear bumper/air tank, pressure gauges, two connect couplers running full 150psi., and one coupler on an adjustable regulator, and auto drains on the tank.

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 04-30-2000, 02:28 AM
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Re: More lessons learned... York on an older CJ (long)

When I did my York I made the bracket because I couldn't seem to find the right brackets.

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post #10 of (permalink) Old 04-30-2000, 08:30 AM
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Re: More lessons learned... York on an older CJ (long)

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] That's the ONE break that we did get....our CJ had the triple groove pulley sets on it.....for some unknown reason....so all we have to do is convert the alternator to a double-groove and we are OK there. I have NO IDEA why the CJ was that way, since as far as I can tell, it never had air. Only two of the three grooves were utilized, and the alternator was swung up on top and slightly more inboard. As I mentioned we are eliminating the side inlet to the water pump. I just hope that our new "scheme" with the water routing works[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]. As soon as I looked inside the water pump, I could see that the by-pass was way too generous. It was too generous even for a vehicle with no heater, or a heater which had a water shut-off on it. When you consider that a SB Chevy has NO by-pass except for the heater.....it really gets your attention when you see this much recirculation. We will, of course be running a drilled thremostat to bleed the air off to the radiator on startup. Our two heaters...plumbed in series will require more pressure to get good flow, so I'm thinking that just having the one circuit for heat and warmup by pass should work a lot better for us, and keep us warmer. I kicked this around with TeamRush, and his first impression when HE first looked at the AMC V8 water pump was also that it may have too much by-pass. Our other concern is that the big pole on the back of the alternator is WAYYYY to close to the first port on the RH exhaust manifold......and there is nothing that we can really do about it except make a heat shield of some kind[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
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