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Jeep-Short Wheelbase All discussion of short wheelbase Jeeps: CJ, TJ, YJ and JK

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post #11 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2000, 11:52 PM
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Re: TFI - CJDave/TR Need your help

Well I had a pretty good idea it was 180 off when he didn't mention piston movement on the COMPRESSION stroke. You guys were all over that though before I could say anything. I had no idea that the I-6 would run 180 out. I can't believe he managed to get it to work!

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post #12 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2000, 11:52 PM
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Re: TFI - CJDave/TR Need your help

I'm not as smart as I was three weeks ago...
We tore out the old ignition bench to build a new and improved one....
The only draw back is, the new one is taking three times longer, and is ten times more complicated that I first expected...
Someone should have told me this crap doesn't build it's self...

Every time we get about half done, someone comes up with another really good idea...
And we have to start from scratch again. I spent ten hours on it today, and the last thing I did was rip 9-1/2 hours worth of work out so we can start fresh again tomorrow...

I'm beginning to wonder if the old bench was that bad...?...

My butt is dragging, I'm going to bed.
Later all, Aaron.

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"
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post #13 of (permalink) Old 04-26-2000, 10:51 AM
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Re: TFI - CJDave/TR Need your help

For all, it does run smooth again. But I do think it needs tweaking. The timing and weber need to be dialed in, it's not running with the same "head turning
snap" it did. It ran like sh** with the Carter and air robbing restrictions, the weber took care of that. After putting my touches on it with the TR upgrade, it again ran like sh**, totally my fault. Nothing like having the timing 180 out... I am really surprised and impressed that it ran that way, and actually had
some balls in a very small powerband, but maybe that goes to show you that the engineers new what they were doing ? Either way, I have decided to keep the 258, for now another good reason, instead of dropping in another motor. And yes, I have noticed a smoother running engine, starts quicker, and is a little less temper-mental....Maybe I was rubbing off on the Jeep ? So again, thanks all......

If it ain't broke,don't fit it. Wait till the wife is gone, and upgrade it .
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post #14 of (permalink) Old 04-26-2000, 11:18 AM
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Re: TFI - CJDave/TR Need your help

Unless I missed something here, how can you, or do you alter the rotor phase? I understand the concept of it all. The rotor must be in phase with the trigger that fires the coil. But is this not a fixed relationship? If it's not in phase can it be changed or has something given out on the distributor that will require that you chunk it in the trash and start with a fresh one?

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post #15 of (permalink) Old 04-26-2000, 05:53 PM
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Re: TFI - CJDave/TR Need your help

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] To adjust for phase, you must physically alter the relationship between the distributor shaft notch and the nose of the rotor. Sometimes they file and fill the rotor, sometimes they move the nose contact piece, and sometimes they buy an adjustable rotor from an outfit like Summit. TR has distributor caps with windows cut in so they can obsefve the phasing. Not too hard to make out of an old cap.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Quadra-Trac modified by the crack moonguy[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] transfer case team.
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post #16 of (permalink) Old 04-26-2000, 11:01 PM
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Re: TFI - CJDave/TR Need your help

So the latest update, timing was a little off again, fixed that. Dialed the weber in with the vac guage, manifold vac sitting at a good
steady 22 on the dial. Double checked that after fiddling with the carb so more. RPM's at about 700 ( idle ). Test run was much
better, but still had predetonation above 50 MPH. Not much though, enough to annoy me ! Was able to run steady between 65 and
70 on I-5. So it looks like just a little more tweaking with both the timing, plugs, and carb. Still doesn't seem to have that seat of the
pants acceleration it did ??? If all goes well, on to the TFI coil. So I'm a little slow......
Hope to do that in the next few weeks.

If it ain't broke,don't fit it. Wait till the wife is gone, and upgrade it .
post #17 of (permalink) Old 04-27-2000, 12:35 AM
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Re: TFI - CJDave/TR Need your help

My 18 YO boy calls it "aunal".
I call it being "good" or being a perfectionist.
I have less respect for less.

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post #18 of (permalink) Old 04-27-2000, 10:48 AM
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Re: TFI - CJDave/TR Need your help

If I remember the Psychology classes correctly, (and I always do) the correct term is, 'Anal Retentive'... (see, I can't even let that little thing go by...)
And yes, I am!....... (and Homo-Phobic Too!!)
Sometimes I think I was potty trained at gunpoint!!

Other times, I could give a sh*t less about anything...
My girl friend says it's a bi-polar thing going on there... She's wrong, (but you will never catch me saying that out loud around her!)

I'm a typical high I.Q. tech geek...
No social skills, no fashion sense, no false modesty, no niceties at all really...
I don't care about anything if I can't do it well.
If I don't do it better than anyone around, I won't do it.

As far as the kid goes, I have no use for anyone that sets down to do a job that is 'Good Enough' or 'Close Enough' or 'That Will Do'....
If anyone just wants to 'Just Get By...', I have no use for them.
If you can't go home tonight, sit back in your chair and say, 'I did my best today, and I hope tomorrow goes as well', there is no point in getting out of that chair ever again.

Have him work on something, and then go way out in the woods...
Have what ever he worked on 'break'...
Let him walk back for parts.
That will make a believer out of him!

We once had a kid that liked to cut corners...
I let him do brakes on my road car.
We went out the highway at about 180 MPH, and I asked him if he was SURE he did the brakes correctly...
He couldn't answer, too busy sobbing and saying he was 'sorry'...
I had redone the brakes before we took the car out, but I didn't tell him that...
If I had made a pass at 180 on his job, we would both be dead...
He doesn't work here any more. He changes oil at the local quick change place.

Rotor phasing is a hard concept to grasp, especially if you have been told the rotor is fixed to the distributor shaft.

The easiest way to see what is going on is to cut a hole in a distributor cap.
(See Attachment)
Point your timing light at the cap, and watch the rotor go forward and backward of the tower as the advance comes in and goes out.
If your rotor is already a little advanced of the tower, and your distributor adds more advance, you could very well fire the next plug in the firing order, 90 to 120 degrees too soon!
That will kill an engine quick!

Same thing for retard. You may be firing the plug while it's on the exhaust stroke...

The whole point of the game is to fire the correct terminal, at the correct time.
If you do, you make power.
If you don't, you loose power and contaminate MY breathing air even more.
Not to mention waste your very expensive gas...

There are so many static and dynamic factors working on the distributor at the same time, that it's hard to comprehend everything without visuals to isolate the different factors and someone to walk you through it.

What you are trying to achieve is...
The idea is to move the cap or the rotor so that the rotor starts a little behind the tower when fully retarded, and when full advance is in, the rotor winds up a little ahead of the terminal.
That keeps the rotor nose close to the correct tower when spark energy is delivered.
I have even had to move the reluctor in the distributor to make things work...

Stuff like this is why people pay me to make horse power, and get everything working correctly.
With all of the self professed ASE Master Techs on this board, someone should have heard of this before.... Shows what ASE Certification is worth...

ASE will give the test Orally, for those that can't read...
Do you want someone that can't read the manual working on your vehicle?

All ASE guys do is change parts. It's a course in how to change parts correctly.

I got all my ASE master testing done in one day.
Read the book on the way to the testing center, and passed all the tests in one afternoon.

SAE, (Society Of Automotive Engineers) certification is still worth something.
To get a SAE Master certification, you will have to have a strong background in chemistry, math, geometry, metallurgy, manufacturing processes, engineering and a whole lot more...

You will not run into may SAE Master Certification holders in local shops.
They mostly work for places like Ford, GM, NASA, NASCAR Teams, ect...

Later folks, Aaron.

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"
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post #19 of (permalink) Old 04-27-2000, 10:55 AM
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Re: TFI - CJDave/TR Need your help

Attachmet didn't take, here it is...

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"
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File Type: jpg 9-36259-TestCap1.jpg (21.1 KB, 1 views)
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