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post #1 of (permalink) Old 03-26-2000, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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outboard spring mounts

I need some input on moving the spring perches outside of the frame.
Im wondering if itll hurt anything if I was to add an inch or so of lift into the new spring mounts?

just let the brackets hang below the frame a bit? any ideas on this?

Im planning on a late 70s Wagoneer Dana 44 up front, and I dont want to shorten it if I can possibly help it.

anybody got some links to these conversions? I checked out the ORC 44 front end swaps, the only one with a SJ 44 on a CJ was cut and shortened.


thanks!

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 03-26-2000, 05:16 PM
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Re: outboard spring mounts

I have seen that conversion on a CJ7 with full length Wagoneer axles. The owner fabricated some mounts that were welded to the sides of the frame for the front axle. The wagoneer axles are about 4" wider than stock wide-track axles(2" per side). There didn't appear to be any problems with making mounts and adding them to the sides of the frame. I don't remember if the factory mounts were removed or not. On the rear axle the spring pads were moved in to match the factory CJ axle. Let me know if you have any questions. Maybe I will remember more about the install if you ask me.

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 03-26-2000, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: outboard spring mounts

yeah Ive got the basic idea, I just wanted some bracket designs to work from, also i was wondering if I could drop the brackets down a little to gain some lift with stock springs?
also will moving hte spring packs closer to the axle ends stiffen the side to side flex? thats cool with me, itll see more Highway than Rock climbing..

any ideas?

man 4 inches wider than wide track axles..hmmm how wide are narrow track axles pared to wide tracks? ive got a 77 narrwo trac.

I might end up having to have the long side shortened, I was trying to stay away from that for cost/spare reasons, BUT I found out I can cut and respline the shaft at work if I can come up with a broach, any machinests out there?

what the hell is a broach?!!

Ive used a Bridgeport very little with an end mill, but I have no idea what a broach is, and they tell me its required to cut splines...any input from you guys?

thanks for your reply Tom!


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post #4 of (permalink) Old 03-26-2000, 08:18 PM
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Re: outboard spring mounts

I would work with the stock wagoneer length. You will end up doing a lot more work and spending more money if you shorten the axles. Plus if you break something you will have to re-fabricate a custom piece. The CJ7 I saw looked fine with the extra 4", I think they had some Wrangler flares that covered most of the difference. I don't see why you couldn't build some lift in to your mounts, you might have to readjust the spring pads for proper pinion angle and caster but that shouldn't be that difficult. Take some pictures while you are doing the swap, I would like to see how it goes.

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 03-26-2000, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: outboard spring mounts

I just happen to have collected some PERFECT YJ flares in my new parts pile!
I wanted to stay stock length !

thanks for the input TOM!

Ill get some pics as I start top make some changes



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post #6 of (permalink) Old 03-26-2000, 08:36 PM
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Re: outboard spring mounts

I swapped in a set of Dana 44s from Scout II. I belive the axles are 58". I wanted the wider axles and they look fine with the wide Xenon flares. I don't see any problems lowering the mounts a little for some more lift. I used 2"x4"x1/4" tubing for my outboard hangers, worked great. If you can use stock axles, you will be better off when it comes time to replace parts. Good Luck!

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 03-26-2000, 08:42 PM
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Re: outboard spring mounts

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Matt....are you SURE the guy said BROACH??? Boy....that goes wayyy back. A broach is a machine that you could set up to brush your teeth for you if you leaned over it and had the toothbruse chucked in the holder. It goes up and down. A SHAPER can brush your teeth with your looking straight ahead if you chucked the brush in the holder. BOTH can cut splines. The broach cuts inside splines and the shaper cuts outside splines. I'm not sure how to set up the indexing head in the broach...not exactly anyway.... Both of these machines are essential for gun making, the receiver portion.......just thought I'd mention it. NOWADAYS.....most splines are cut on a Bridgeport. The main reason; besides the opportunity to get BRIDGEPORT FINGER; is that it is easier to use. Man...those shapers are SCARY! I had one that was a an old overhead-drive conversion, and it always made me nervous. I was afraid it would hang up the tool and........well it would be scary.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 03-27-2000, 07:00 AM
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Re: outboard spring mounts

I did just what you are talking about to my scrambler.I did a spring over in the rear,which made my 4in. trailmasters in the front a little shy.I took some 5/16 plate and made two spring hangers that were 2in. lower than factory, then just made some shackles for the front to make up the difference.As far as using the wider axle,put a plate on the bottom of the frame and gusset it real good.It's not hard to do at all and it gives you a nice flat spot to weld your new spring hangers onto...I'll be at the rosser rush in Hot Springs next week, if your around there,lookfor a purple scrambler and I'll be glad to show you...

post #9 of (permalink) Old 03-27-2000, 03:26 PM
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Re: outboard spring mounts

About the wider spring spacings limiting articulation... I've been thinking (which is always dangerous). If you use wider axles with stock located springs, the wider axles will articulate the same # of degrees (assuming no intereference) but due to the greater width, the # of inches travelled will be greater. Moving the springs out will decrease the # of degrees of articulation (same spring travel, but working farther out on the axle) which will decrease teh total # of inches travelled, but with the wider axles, it should even out. However...because the springs are further out on the axle, the forces applied to the spring via the force (i.e. leverage) generated by the axle are weaker the further out on the axle you go. Either way, with wider axles and wider spring spacing, it should even out quite a bit. Now if you went to wider axles with stock spring location, my thinking is that not only would you gain inches because of the greater distance from the pivot point (spring) that the tire is, but you would also gain degrees because the axle would exert more force (leverage) on the spring. Just remember that the wider you go with spring spacing, the more spring travel you have to have to produce articulation...

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