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post #1 of (permalink) Old 03-21-2000, 07:56 PM
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ATTN: TEX

There is a guy on a list that I belong to who is attempting his first mud bog pretty soon. He asked some questions and I thought that you would be the perfect person to answer them. Here is a copy of his post and his address is in there somewhere.
THANX

[email protected] writes:

Ok, I need some opinions... I am going to enter my Jeep in a mud racing event this coming June. I have not done much off roading in this vehicle, its been "under repair" for the three years I've owned it! Right now, it (78 CJ-7,
Hardtop) has stock suspension, Goodyear Tracker A-T, 10-15LT Tires (32x10.5 Bias-ply), 304V8 with Edelbrock intake and carb, stock axles and T-150/D20 drivetrain, stock exhaust (I have headers...) and a full roll cage. I am going to enter the 2 and 4 wheel drive classes. My question is: what is the upgrade that will make the most difference? Tires? Locker (F or R?)? Should I put the headers on just for that weekend with no pipes? Should I remove the hardtop to save weight? I don't have a lot of money left to spend, so any help will be appreciated. Anybody compete in these things? Have any hints for a rookie?
Thanks

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] 1976 CJ-7,CHEVY 350, 33'S, 3" LIFT, THAT COVERS MOST OF THE MAJOR STUFF [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 09:39 AM
TEX
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Re: ATTN: TEX

<font color=purple>The improvements I'd look into are as follows:

1) Tires

2) Tires

3) Tires

4) Tires


I've never seen anyone with a good engine & bad tires win a race. But, I've won several on premium tires (with zero pavement miles on 'em) & junk engines.

I've never had a locker in any of my racers & most have been open diffy's front & rear. Tell him to definitely take off the top & doors (assuming it's okay with the rules - generally is & he could run a bikini top to keep some mud out), but NOT to uncork the headers. Mufflers are almost always required in the lower classes. If he's allowed to remove the passenger seat, he should also take that out & definitely remove the rear seat if he has one. Unbolt the spare, the jack, and anything else that adds weight & doesn't HAVE to be there. With an aggressive set of 31-33" radials, he should probably be able to run 2nd gear, low range with a 304 (that's my old setup). He probably has 3.54's & I used to run 3.73's. If his engine is worn out, the 33's & 3.54's might dog him down a bit in 2nd, but if he gets a good launch, he should be okay. If he gets some 33" Swampers (tell him to forget he even heard the word "Bogger"), then he'll need to stay in 1st, low-range. If he has an open air cleaner, a quick fix is to take an oil drainpan & put it over the filter upside down (he'll have to poke a hole in it for the carb post & should get one that's plenty big so it'll allow a lot of air to reach the filter). He'll need to remove his mechanical fan so it doesn't end up in the radiator. A stock 304 can do w/o it for a while w/o getting hot. It's about a 5 minute job, max. Just tell him to make sure to leave the pulley in place & crank the nuts back down on the pulley. It wouldn't be a bad idea to cover the distributor, but I never did. Right before his class starts, he should spray it & the plug wires with lots of WD-40 - helps keep moisture out. Rev the engine a couple of times before taking off to clean it out & sidestep the clutch at about 3,500 RPM's while simultaneously flooring the throttle. If momentum slows down, he should start working the steering wheel for all it's worth! When they red-flag him, he should try to push in the clutch while his left leg does its best impersonation of a sewing-machine needle[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]. Put it in neutral & let the tractor pull him out (assuming he doesn't cross the finish line). He'll need to bring his own helmet, & should go to the farm supply store for a 3" or larger clevis to mount on the rear if he doesn't already have one. Goggles & neck braces aren't a bad idea & if it gets real sloppy, he'll definitely want to keep his mouth closed[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img]. For specific tire recommendations, I'd have to know more about the rules. But, 32X9.50, 12X15, 33X12.50, & 34X9.50 TSL's all kick serious butt - as do P78 Buckshots (33X10). The 34's are the best of the bunch, but if it's a bog event, he'll probably be limited to 33" in the lowest class (not always the case, though). None of the above make decent ON-road tires. So, if he's looking for something more versatile, he should consider an aggressive radial - something like a Cooper Discoverer STT

I've never won a race on radials, but have been in the money with 'em. A Buckshot radial or a 33X10.50 TSL radial would be even more aggressive than the Coopers & would give him a better shot while still being better on the highway than a bias tire - but not as good as something like the Coopers. And just trying to be "competitive" is about as high as any first-timer should aim. Most of all, tell him just to try to have fun!</font color=purple>

TEX

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing

post #3 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 10:15 AM
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Re: ATTN: TEX

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] As usual, TEX....a really GREAT post. I'm saving this for posterity.....or in case we go mud racing to get away from the Federales in the "crap times" after Algore becomes prez and outlaws SUVs and tries to round 'em up. I know a Hummer can't follow a mud Jeep driven by someone who follows your instructions. Great post,[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]TEX!!!!

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] made 'em up themselves.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 12:07 PM
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Re: ATTN: TEX

<font color=purple>Glad you brought up the Hummer. At the 1997 Washington Mud Bog, the local Guard unit brought one down & wanted to run. Back then, the rule in class II was 36" measured height. Their 37" tires had to be forced through the calipers (my 38X12.50's practically fall through), but we said they could run that class. We knew they didn't stand a chance of winning. The mud wasn't especially deep, & we had some full runs in the 33" class. With the exception of a couple of mechanical breakdowns, everyone made it through in the 36" class - everyone that is except the guy in the Hummer. That's right, out of 45 entries, only the Hummer actually got stuck. Keep in mind, this was a "Street Stock" class. Nobody in the class was allowed to have open headers, nitrous, multiple carbs, aftermarket injection, methanol or other "exotic" fuels, etc., etc. Still have the tape & just as he finishes getting stuck, you can clearly hear someone in the crowd say, "Is that all you can be???!!!"

So, yeah Dave. File this one away & you'll be sure to be able to outrun the gun-grabbers when they come for ya!</font color=purple>

TEX

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing

post #5 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 02:29 PM
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Re: ATTN: TEX, THANX

I just wanted to thank you for helping this guy out. When I read some of the answers and advice people were giving him, even I knew that the advice was wrong. I took the libery of explaining, and stated that it was my thinking not yours, why you did not recommend lockers as your first mod like nearly everyone else. I pointed out that an open diff with both wheels having equal traction, or lack there of, will spin at the same rate, therefore eliminating the necessity of a locker. I went into more detail in the original post but I hat to write the same thing over and over. I really admire TEAMRUSH for being able to talk about the same ignition questions as much as he does. And CJDave, there was another guyon the same list that had electrical question about installing a circuit borad thingy like what you mailed me. Someone on the list apparently knew you well enough to tell him to search for you on this BBS.
Well, everybody have fun today.
LATER

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] 1976 CJ-7,CHEVY 350, 33'S, 3" LIFT, THAT COVERS MOST OF THE MAJOR STUFF [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
post #6 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 02:58 PM
TEX
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Re: You\'re welcome

<font color=purple>Don't mention it. And if anyone hassles you, let 'em know that you got your advice from a guy who's spent a dozen years racing, has been a tech inspector for 13 different sanctioning bodies, has penned the rules for 4 sanctioning bodies & for specific classes in 2 others, and has his very own mud race organization. Generally speaking, you will get some power transferred to all 4 wheels under the "controlled environment" of a straight-line mud bog. And getting power to one extra wheel that is attached to a tractionless tire will get you nowhere. Tires, then weight reduction, then engine, then suspension, and eventually if you get around to it, maybe a locker in the back. I can probably count on one hand the number of serious mud draggers or boggers in my home state that have a locked front differential. And plenty of them are open in the rear also. The first year I raced with Missouri Mud Racing Association, I distinctly remember Quentin Tainter taking 1st place in Super Stock in at LEAST 17 out of the 22 races. His Jeep ran 3.50's front & rear (full-width Ford 44/9") - both open & usually all 4 spinning furiously. Now THAT was a heckofa Jeep - 351C/C6 running at nearly 9,000 RPM's in a 2,800 lb CJ2A with 42's on 15X14 Carbon Fibers! ZZZZIIIIINNNGGGGG!!! BTW, you can "cut & paste" stuff if you don't want to have to re-type what someone else said, or what you said elsewhere. Big time-saver for lazy guys like me[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif[/img].</font color=purple>

TEX

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing

post #7 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 03:19 PM
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Re: You\'re welcome

Tex
that was a great article!
i have one question you are running open diffs, but u said u are running strait line mud bogs! so if you where in the woods with the mud would one of your upgrades be a locker? besides tires? I was planning on running a locker front and rear? what do u think i do not play in strait mud bogs!
thanks
Andy

post #8 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 04:30 PM
TEX
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Re: You\'re welcome

<font color=purple>If I ever decide to put the crowbar in my wallet, I'd probably stick one in the back, but stay open up front. Makes it a bit tougher to turn if you're locked up front. And for us race guys, lockers tend to pull us all over the pit if we have 'em up front where an open front will take power away from a tire that hits a bump or rut (gaining sudden, unexpected traction). When you get traction to the right or left, your whole truck starts going that direction - especially in a short-wheelbase vehicle like a CJ. For playing in the woods, I'd probably lock the rear & I might consider a good limited slip in the front, but I'd leave the front lockers to the rock-crawlers. Regardless, my first mod would still be the tires - and that goes for ANY kind of wheeling. Just my $.02.</font color=purple>

TEX

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing

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