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post #1 of (permalink) Old 03-21-2000, 08:57 AM
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What amperage?

I'm trying to build my first mod. I want to build a control panel to switch lights and other things up to. I知 learning about electronics to do this but I had a few questions that I know some of you would know. I believe (like I said I知 learning) the battery is DC current, witch the electrons should run from negative to positive. I haven稚 traced the wire yet, but I thought the negative went to the engine block or frame? Also if I understand correctly, the alternator changes this current to AC? Can anyone explain the wiring in better detail for beginner understanding of current? Does anyone know the amperage the battery puts out and the amp the alternator puts out?

I値l post pictures with schematics when I知 done.

Thanks, Jeff


'83 CJ7 258 i6 31x10.5 3in. lift? [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 03-21-2000, 02:19 PM
 
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Re: What amperage?

I'll try to help you out Jeff. Everything in a jeep, and most vehicles, is DC, even the output of the alternator. The current the alt puts out depends on the rpm it's turning at, most stock alt' put out 50-80 amps. I think my stock YJ puts out 60ish. You battery only puts out current when you start the engine (cold cranking amps) and can range from 400 cca's to 900 cca's. You can actually crank up your engine and take the battery out and it will run fine if the alternator is operational.

As far as the negative goes, yes, everything electrical is grounded to the chassis. To make a light bulb light up, all you have to do is run one wire to the terminal (through a switch if you want to be able to turn it on and off) and the other wire to a chassis bolt.
Hope that helps, keep at it

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img] Big Ed
<font color=red>'88 YJ, 4" susp,3" body,33's,283 Chevy V8,TH350,4.11's,D30,D35c</font color=red>
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 03-21-2000, 10:29 PM
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Re: What amperage?

If I remember my schooling correctly, electrons do flow from negative to positive, but the convention is to show electricity flowing from positive to negative. The important thing is, it all works out the same, so forget about the electrons and always think of electricity flowing from positive to negative.

Alternators convert the energy required to turn the shaft of the alternator into DC current. This is accomplished by moving one magnetic field through another, which causes an electric current to flow.

Amperage output of alternators and batteries varies, depending how they are constructed.

Hope I haven't made it more confusing,

jerry
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 01:07 AM
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Re: What amperage?

the alt. doesn't convert to ac, it uses induction to create a current that is used to charge yor battery up after starting and to run your accesories. but,you seem to be getting in deeper than you need to be. the main things you need to know is that all circuits have to be complete in order to work(you need to start at the pos. term of your battery and end at the neg. but since your neg. is tied to your frame you can end the circuit there.) The next thing you need to know is how many lights and what wattage you are installing. the lights are measured in watts. to find the current they'll pull(amps)divide the watts by volts(12)(300 watt lights draw 25 amps). If you want your switches to last you should put dc relays between the switches and the lights. run from a fuse in your fuse box to your switch and out to the coil side of the relay and your wire from your light will connect to one side of the n.o.(normally open) contacts and a fused lead from the side of your battery will connect to the other. The other lead of your light will connect to the frame. Lastly dont forget to size your wire correctly you can find pocket ref. books at elect. supply stores that will tell you what size you need based on the length of the run and the current that will be running through it. if you need some more info feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 08:35 AM
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Re: What amperage?

Thanks for the help guys. I'll post what I come up with.

'83 CJ7 258 i6 31x10.5 3in. lift? [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
post #6 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 08:49 AM
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Re: What amperage?

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Dear J-head. My moonguy-in-chief[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] of wiring claims that the ONLY way to really do this right is to use relays for everything. He says that if you had even ONE hair on your.....well, you get the idea......that you would get down to Radio Smack and buy a bunch relays, part number 27500226 and go to JCWhitney and buy fuse panel 46377-14 That way, says, moonguy[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] you can run one HUGE wire to the Cole-Hersee fuse panel(yes....it's the same as used in semi trucks) and you have 14 fuses to go anywhere that you want. THEN, you use a tiny toggle switch to "pick" the relay, and the relay puts the major current to the appliance, whatever it may be. My moonguy[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] says that this is the RIGHT way to do this and if you don't do it his way, well......try to imagine a whole LIFE without beer.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 12:30 PM
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Re: What amperage?

dave is right on with the wiring, and it is easy to do.

now an alternator is just that, it produces alternating current (ac), and via the wonder of diodes you get half wave ac (contrary to popular belief, alternators do not produce true dc).

dan
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 02:14 PM
 
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Re: What amperage?

Bright group here today!
This is usually where most people screw up.
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I really hate having to include a disclaimer, but it's come to the point where I have to...
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Before the 'Nit Pickers' start in, this is a simple explanation, and I an NOT referring to any specific kind or type of generator...
It doesn't have anything to do with make, year model, or anything to do with what someone once told anyone...
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That is true, alternating generators, or alternators as they are commonly called, do NOT produce true Direct Current (DC).
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The produce Alternating Current,
The Alternating Generator passes a strong Magnetic Field through several coils of wire conductor.
(That coiled wire is called the STATOR, and gets it name because it stays Stationary)

That magnetic field causes a reaction in the conductor wire called INDUCTANCE.
The magnetic field INDUCES an electrical CURRENT in the coils of wire.
(Current is any movement of electrical energy)

The Current induced by the magnetic field changes Polarity depending on if the North Pole Field of the Magnet is Inducing the current, Or the South Pole Field is Inducing the Current.

As the North Pole and South Poles of the magnet spin around in the Stator (coils of wire),
Both Positive and Negative POLARITY are created in the same wires.

The changing Polarity of the Stators' current is called, Alternating Current.
Alternating Current (AC) switches polarity several times a second.
Any given conductor in an AC circuit will alternate between Positive and Negative several times a second.
That's why it's called 'Alternating Current'.
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The Alternating Current produced by the Alternator is 'Rectified' by two sets of diodes.

A diode is an electrical check valve that lets current flow one way only, and can be used to pass only the positive or only the negative sides of the alternating current.

By using Diodes, all of the Positive pulses can be separated from the Negative pulses.

Rectified meaning the Positive pulses are separated and collected together.
The Negative pulses are separated and collected also.
This gives you two separate and distinct polarities, Positive and Negative, but they are still a series of very fast Pulses...
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Those Pulses are passed to the vehicle battery.
The battery absorbs the pulses, smooths them out, and combines them with energy already stored in the battery.

This nice, even, homogenized voltage is passed from the battery as true Direct Current to your accessories and appliances.
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Look at the electrical flow like water flow.

The Positive source, in your case, the battery, is the high ground.
To make it move, you need a tube. (Wire.)
The Larger the tube, the more flow or volume. (Larger wire.)
To turn a water wheel or some other accessory, you need a LOT of volume. (Volume Is Amperage)
To squirt a long way, you need pressure. (Pressure Is Voltage)
To make the flow stop, you need a valve. (Switch)
To keep the flow moving, you need drop. (Going To Ground)
The end of the flow would be the low ground. (Ground)
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Most people either really get it, or they don't...
It's like Anchovies, either you love them or you hate them...
There is no 'In-Between' usually...
----------------------------------

Hope this helps verify what's already been said,
Aaron.



I haven't committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the law...
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 05:04 PM
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Re: What amperage?

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] What is interesting about the rectifier method of "making" direct current is that it is so widely used. In order to make big motors...like the ones that drive big building exhaust fans for example.....go whatever speed the operator wants, they take normal alternating current that the building gets from the utility company.....then the rectifier sorts it out, putting all the pluses in one pile and all the minuses in another pile....THEN another gizmo takes the pluses and minuses ON DEMAND out of the two piles and makes AC current all over again, but it can make the plus pulse last LONGER and the minus pulse last LONGER IF IT WANTS TO, to make the motor take longer to go pole to pole, and cause a slower speed. The operator just dials what he wants, OR the computer reads the air temp and does it automatically. This is called PULSE WAVE MODULATION, and is the best thing since sliced bread. Previously, you had to have an MG (Motor-Generator) set making true DC and have a huge variable resister to get different speeds. Needless to say this has revolutionized heating, ventilating, and air conditioning.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2000, 05:14 PM
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Re: What amperage?

hey there team rush.. you hit it square and hard.. i teach avionics to young marines.. and sometimes older ones.. but that is the basic way i teach them about electronics.. way to go.. like a job? doesnt pay much.. but the hours are good..
KISS!!!!!

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