*MTjeeper* Asked,

*Sorry to beat a dead horse but...
Whats the diff between the HEI upgrade and the TR upgrade?*

Fair Question...

The "TeamRush" ignition upgrade uses the stock distributor,
(Which is an excellent design, and functions very well, ask any Ford racing guy.)
It uses the stock ignition module, and all of the stock wiring harness.
All you change is the distributor cap, rotor, plug wires, and if you can afford it, the ignition coil.

The stock type distributor will keep the vacuum advance where it's supposed to be, the centrifugal advance were it's supposed to be, the install height where it's supposed to be, the oil pump drive in the correct location, and will virtually eliminate the problems with the Jeep version of the Motorcraft/ DuraSpark ignition (namely, small, unvented distributor cap, short rotor, old style plug wires, and the factory canister coil)

The upgrade includes:
-Larger & Taller Distributor Cap, spreads the terminals out and cuts way down on cross fire and chain fire.
-Taller Rotor, keeps the spark energy from jumping from the rotor to the distributor chassis (Ground) inside the distributor. Cuts way down on misfires.
-Better cap terminals, Accommodate the 'HEI' style plug wires, and don't hold moisture or debris in the distributor cap.
-TFI ignition coil, is about 1-1/2 more potent than the canister coil.
(The TFI coil will increase all of the important factors of spark energy, Voltage, Spark Duration and Amperage.)

For a world class- High Performance ignition capable of 15,000 RPM, you can use an MSD 6 series ignition module, WITH ALL OTHER COMPONENTS BEING STOCK, and your ignition system will beat any other ignition on the market.
(If you can prove that any other $130 improvement will do a better job, I'll buy it for you.)
-----------------

You are using a distributor that was designed and tested for your engine.
You are using a distributor that with the upgrade parts coming from somewhere like MSD, the upgrade is 50 State Emissions Legal, and CARB certified.
All upgrade parts can be bought over the counter at any discount auto parts store in a pinch, no exotic parts of any kind used in the basic upgrade.

Easy for an amateur to do in the drive way in under two hours, even if you rode the 'short bus' to school...
(Ignitions For Dummies...)

Look for $100 for the basic upgrade (performance well above the GM HEI),
And around $200 for the MSD version of the upgrade parts (Emissions and CARB Legal)
The basic MSD 6A module runs about $130, and the top end, the MSD Off-Road Module is about $240.
--------------------------------

The GM HEI ignition, and ALL of it's clones are from a defective design to start with.
The GM HEI was designed in 1966, went into limited production (with points to trigger it) in 1972, and was used in all GM vehicles by 1974 with an electronic trigger.

GM could never design out all of the defects, so the entire Coil-In-Cap design was scrapped. GM now uses an ignition very similar to the Ford ignitions.

The GM HEI was never accurate enough to adequately trigger a computer system (or high performance engine).
The GM HEI is NOT designed to work with your engine.
The GM HEI is NOT Emissions or CARB legal in any state.
The GM HEI / Hybrid For Jeep is comprised of mismatched parts, plugged into an engine it's not supposed to be in, and 9 times out of 10, is supplied by power wires too small to adequately feed the ignition.

Changing over to a GM HEI system will require either an investment of about $400-$600 to purchase the distributor and support gear, and it will require scrapping the entire stock ignition system, and starting from scratch.
(I have not seen one single web site yet that installs the GM HEI correctly.)
--------------------------------

A word about aftermarket ignition parts...
The most common mistake most people make is to think that something in a flashy box, or with a racy name and high price tag is 'Better' that stock parts....

MSD 'Blaster' and Accel 'Super Stock' ignition coils are exactly the same thing...
Factory type premium coils with pretty paint and a sticker, .... and a doubled price.

HEAR THIS...

ANY PREMIUM DISTRIBUTOR CAP WITH BRASS TERMINALS WILL WORK JUST AS WELL AS THE 'HOT SHOT' BRANDS.
(All are manufactured in the same factories.)
ONLY MSD IS 50 STATE EMISSIONS AND CARB LEGAL. They have done the testing and received the certification.

ANY PREMIUM FACTORY REPLACEMENT STORE BRAND IGNITION COIL WILL WORK AS WELL AS THE 'HOT SHOT' BRANDS.
(All are manufactured in the same factories.)
ONLY MSD IS 50 STATE EMISSIONS AND CARB LEGAL. They have done the testing and received the certification.
Borg-Warner, AC Delco, Motorcraft, and a couple of others make ALL of the premium and factory stock ignition coils in the United States, so no matter what brand you buy, you are getting one of about five major manufacturers.
(If you buy the 'Economy import coil, then you get what you deserve...)

THERE IS A DDIFFERENCEIN PLUG WIRES!
In most cases, the premium, lifetime warranty store brand of plug wires will work just fine with stock type ignition systems.
The 'Hellically Wound' type of wire is ppreferredover all other types.

NEVER USE SOLID CORE WIRES ON AN ELECTRONIC IGNITION !!

For High Performance Ignitions, As Of The Writing Of This,
MSD Makes The Finest Plug Wires Available. The 8.5 MM wire sets are the lowest resistance, lowest noise (both RF and EM), and the highest voltage with the best insulation that I've ever tested.
At about $60 to $80 a set, they are NOT cheap, but will last a very long time, and are well worth the money if you need them.





"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

One thing I've never figured out is is the TR upgrade for 258 I6's only, or will it work on 4.0's too? And why never run solid core wires on an electronic engine? I'm scared now that I might have some on my Jeep

"James and the Giant Jeep"
1993 Wrangler 4.0/5spd, Herculined Interior, D44s Soon

I feel this is a great upgrade with the MSD box. A few years back, I felt the big ford cap would fit an AMC Motorcraft distributer. TR was the first, as far as I know, of to confirm this, and print part numbers. That is why the People on ORC call it the TR upgrade. I am not sure what a DUI cost, but the TR upgrade comes in about $220, with an MSD 6A box. IMHO, you can't do a DUI, or HEI for that price.

Think like a man of action,
act like a man of thought.
Ray

Thanks for posting this TR, I was just wondering the very same thing! I was about to get a reworked GM HEI distributor for my jeep. Will your upgrade work on my 304? I have a friend that bought the DUI a couple years ago and I believe he gave about $450 for it. Works good, but OUCH!

Yes the "TR" conversion will work on the V8's just as easy. (as long as you have a motorcraft and not a prestolite dist.----and yes it will say on the side of it) I have done 4 6cyl's and 2 V8's and all were totally happy with the improvements and the price. I will also say that none have been done with the next step of MSD pcs.

TR get's a big thumbs up from me (and plenty of others) on this world class, but easy and cheap upgrade.

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
http://home1.gte.net/rythem/davescj7.htm

Wow. You don't like the GM HEI at, do you?

Here's a GM HEI website that is informative. Larry and I installed our HEIs about the same time. I have $40 in the unit (from the junkyard), and a total of $120 with new cap rotor & wires.

http://www.geocities.com/jeeperaz/hei.htm

As far as not being emissions legal, that may be, but here are the results of a voluntary emissions test I took:

I live in Indiana, and at least in my part of the state (rural), there is no emissions testing. I had occasion to go to Walmart recently and they had a voluntary emissions check station, so I had them plug it in to my 1979 258, with BBD and HEI. This is a stock engine. The results are as follows:

High speed CO - .125% (2500 rpm)
High speed HC - 18 PPM
Low speed CO - .240% (600 rpm)
Low speed HC - 59 PPM

The limit is 1 - 1.2 % for CO
The limit is 200 - 220 PPM for HC

They were frankly amazed at the low emissions coming from my jeep and asked if I had recently rebuilt the engine, etc. The engine at the time of testing had 106,000 miles on it. This test was done in September of 2000.

I have run a GM HEI for about 3 years with no adverse effects. Better starting/idling/more and smoother power. I am sorry I haven't heard much about the ignition you speak of and maybe it is better than an HEI, but for the money I have invested, it's the best bang for the buck I have spent on my CJ.


From Southeastern Indiana...Guy
CJ7, 258, T18, Dana 44s ARB/Detroit, 4 wheel discs, YJ springs w/shackle reversal
93 Toy T100 4X4 (daily driver)
1971 Jeepster Commando - all stock!

There have been voluminous flaming arguments on the merits of HEI v. TR. PLEASE, lets not go there again [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif[/img]. But, just my 2cents from looking at the 2, I have most of what I need for an HEI, but didn't do it on the new motor, will be doing the TR when I get around to it.

Brad
ORC Land Use Section Editor
http://www.off-road.com/land
Vice-Pres. Rock Garden 4 Wheelers, Farmington, NM
http://rockgarden.rockcrawler.com

I have the GM HEI on my CJ and it works very well compared to the stock setup. I have less than $100 in the conversion and can re-install my factory setup if I ever need to. I now have another Jeep with the factory setup and I will probably try the TR upgrade. It will be nice to be able to compare the two options. I have no doubt that either of these two options are way better than the stock setup.

Later,

http://home.off-road.com/~tom85cj7/home.htm

Yes both are way better, no doubt. The only reason I left my ignition stock on the brand new motor was I knew what I was dealing with if there were any problems off the bat. Now that its almost broken in, that will change.

Brad
ORC Land Use Section Editor
http://www.off-road.com/land
Vice-Pres. Rock Garden 4 Wheelers, Farmington, NM
http://rockgarden.rockcrawler.com

Tom, you will be happy either way cpmpaired to stock. I pulled and sold an HEI out of my jeep after I tryed the TR. My reasoning is that I can get every part anywhere in the US that I would ever need, real easy and in stock.
The HEI can be had real easy too EXCEPT for the gear on the bottom. Those are a real hard to find used part and I couldn't find a dealer who stocked them around me.(and around $45 to boot)

Either one is a vast improvement over the OEM.
One thing I'd like to mention,
On the duraspark the computer really needs to be taken out of the loop for full (rpm) performance. Also you can get more "bang" with different advance springs.
This goes the same with the HEI(on the springs) and also a new (larger) hot wire.
All in all try it on your next one. I think you'll like it. It's a tomato/tomaaato thing.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
(BTW I didn't know all of this. TR kept feeding my brain with things to try that were cheap to do. So my body had to try them. YES they work)

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
http://home1.gte.net/rythem/davescj7.htm