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post #1 of (permalink) Old 01-05-2001, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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OT-This econazi stuff hasnt bothered me until now

Alright this is gay.I just saw that pole a second ago and read a few words.Its the environmenalist vs the industry!Not anyone else!I could give a f&#k less about logging and oil production!I mean its important I guess but if you need to close lands to those two sources.Im not going to care.JUST LIKE THE rest of the US probably wont.The general public doesn't seem to care/like those industries to much I dont think.I remember reading articles about that one girl up in a tree and a logging company..I thought wow..this logging company and the industries are really jackasses.I dont know..I don't really like being in the same catagory as someone destroying or taking stuff(i know its necessary and I dont mind it)Are we grouped and have to fight along with these people in court?I bet the general public(women,californianssorry women and californians) thinks they are greedy and destructive.That just not a group that we wont to be stereotyped with right?


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post #2 of (permalink) Old 01-05-2001, 03:43 PM
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Re: OT-This econazi stuff hasnt bothered me until now

We are grouped into a category called "Mulitiple Use". This includes everyone from the miners to the mountain bikers. But it is not really about "use", it is about the socialistic agenda the liberals and GAGs are trying to shove down our throats. We have to band together, the GAGs are, and their interests are everything from saving whales to saving rocks. I invite you to visit the Land Use Section on this mag that I edit, you will see what this war we have been forced into is all about.

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http://www.off-road.com/land
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 01-05-2001, 04:51 PM
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Re: OT-This econazi stuff hasnt bothered me until now

JoeyCJ5, Sorry to see you feel this way. But then again all Liberals are pretty much the same way. You drive your vehicle everywhere, have hugh homes built out of wood, and take everything you can get. But then on the other hand, you deplore mining, logging, or in general access to our natural resouces. Its the NIMBY syndrome in another light. You had better wake up, and figure out where your gas for your CJ5 comes from, and what puts the roof over your head, and probably what is putting food on your table.

I think the most frustrating part about this whole thing is the people that are promoting these liberal agendas don't even believe in them. So many are in it strictly for the money. As an example, one of the original leaders of Earth First, (You know, the original don't log, mine, drive on, look at, drink, or use in any way our natural resources group), Quit the organization after making extremely large sums of money from all the Liberals that don't have a clue about real life, and especially life out west in the less populated states. He built a log home on the Madison River here in Montana, that is the definition of excessive. Huge old growth logs to build a home in excess of 9000Sqft. It is apparent that this guy used the power of his group to amass his fortune and then go completely against his lofty ideals and do what he preached was the wrong thing.

From this I have decided that any Liberal that owns a car and or a home is blowing hot air. They DO NOT believe in there own cause.

A real liberal would give up there car, live in a 400 sqft room, and not have any material possesions. All the others are just ignorant sheep being led to slaughter.

Enjoying Montana's Big Sky & Big Game
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 01-05-2001, 06:03 PM
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Re: OT-This econazi stuff hasnt bothered me until now

They're right, we are lumped into a group. The group is the "not us" group, so if we're not one of them, we're bad.

I have seen firsthand accounts of these "greenies", I call them "eco-terrorists", sabotaging areas to prove a point. I have seen (not actually "seen", but proven) them dump oil in a pond and say it was someone else, and I have seen them dump paint thinner down a well to say the groundwater was contaminated by an industrial site. In both cases the dumped liquids weren't the same as what was actually on site, so we knew they were bogus.

I have also been on "outings" gathering data with them, along with the Department of Marine Resources and Department of Environmental Protection. The samples were sent to an independent lab, which is top of the line for testing, agreed to by all, and approved by the EPA for such tests. When the results came back and were looked at, the eco-terrorists said we skewed the results, they were sampled wrong, and the lab ran the tests incorrectly. They're completely nuts and if you're not on their side, you need help until you can "see" their point of view.

They're out to promote their political agenda, and if they win one case, they keep moving on until they win another. They try to develop a "name", and then can do as they please. Make no bones about it, they don't care about the environment, they care about helping themselves.

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 01-05-2001, 08:35 PM
 
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Re: OT-This econazi stuff hasnt bothered me until now

while it is probably true that threre are profit motivated so called enviro groups out there, please dont lump all liberals,eco nazis, terrorist, criminals,dumbasses into the same pile.
obviuosly not all liberals are profit motivated to save the baby shrews in Vermont, and not all think its terrible to log.

just like any other agument its really easy to exploit and expose the few extreme examples, especially when they dont ring true to the cause.




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post #6 of (permalink) Old 01-05-2001, 08:57 PM
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Re: OT-This econazi stuff hasnt bothered me until now

Unfortunately, the 10% rule is in effect for the masses. Whether you consider yourself liberal or conservative, you're going to get lumped into what the "other" side considers "fanatics". I've been called a "greenie" before simply because I pointed out to a fellow wheeler that he shouldn't ride his ATV off of the trail and out across a meadow. Me, a "hugger", I don't think so! [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif[/img] But he was one of the 10% that makes the rest of us look bad. The liberals have their 10% that makes them all look like "eco-nazis" as well. It just so happens that the 10% of the liberals are more verbal/active than the rest of them. I don't think there's a single member on this board that would consider themselves a true conservative or a true liberal. Both sides have good points. I just think that the conservative side has better points. Just my opinion.....Bret [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 01-06-2001, 12:06 AM
 
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Re: OT-This econazi stuff hasnt bothered me until now

<font face="Comic Sans MS">I believe that all of us OHV users are in some form or another the true environmentalists. The ones who go out and enjoy nature, clean our trails, groom the trails, and try to minimize our impact on our surroundings while still getting out and enjoying nature. The environmentalists who wish to close everything are the environmental nazis. They are the ones who don't understand forest management, they are the ones who shout "Save the Planet" from the rooftops, yet they are also the ones who like their homes in forests, like large homes, like vehicles on the roads, and enjoy the fruits of the logging, mining, and automobile industries, just to name a few. They are hypocrites.

The wildfires are an example of the environmental movement having an influence on policy. Not just now, but it's been happening gradually for years. Those fires can get hot enough to vaporize aluminum. That is certainly not healthy for the forest, and normal forests don't do that. The density of the forests has increased steadily and the fuel loads have been building up. Selective logging and more prescribed burns are necessary to help create safe forests for everyone again, including the creatures and plants that live there. Logging isn't evil, nor is mining. Both are valuable industries. I don't mind being thrown into a category with loggers and miners, they seem to typically do a pretty good job of taking care of what they do. Especially with many loggers going away from clear cutting, to selectively thinning. More issues in danger are fire fighting. In "wilderness" areas, firefighters aren't allowed to have their equipment in the area to put out the fire. They aren't allowed to thin out wilderness areas, even though the density of the forests is too high already, and it will result in more catastrophic wildfires. Closing off more lands in the way that wilderness areas are already closed off is a very ridiculous move. We need access to these lands for fire suppression, and for recreation, as well as for the resources that we all rely on.

If we do not fight along side of loggers, miners, and other "multiple use" people in court, then by the time they are suppressed, when the environmentalists come to give our sport it's death blow, there will be nobody left to help stand up for us. What we really need to do is take the media back from the eco nazis. We need to show the public real information rather than junk science and worthless "pseudo facts" or half truths. Since the public in general believes the media implicity without bothering to dig any deeper than the surface to find the flaws in what the media says. Fox news does a fair job of this, but that's the only media that seems to.

One other thing about closing lands to logging and oil production... If you close more areas to those activities, then the areas remaining open to those activities come under far heavier use, and are utilized more fully, increasing the impact on those areas. The overall need for those products doesn't decrease, but the ability of the materials to make things such as wood products, and petroleum products does. This not only hurts the economy, but it also hurts the environment in those areas that remain open. If you spread out the logging (selective thinning) you do over a wide area, the impact of the activities are minimized. Closing any public lands is doing a dis-service to many members of the public. I mean are the eco-nazis somehow better or more important members of the public than us? They certainly are not. As members of the public, we all deserve an equal right to access public lands. Incidentally counting wilderness areas, the eco-nazis have far more areas that they can utilize than us in the OHV community can. Many of the "roadless" areas they are claiming, really aren't roadless. They already have roads or trails on them, yet they are going to be locked up regardless.

Ok I'm done. </font>


Tim "Sandman"

ORC Land Use columnist:
My November article on ORC
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 01-06-2001, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: OT-This econazi stuff hasnt bothered me until now

Oh man I don't hate those industries!I said it doesn't bother me..in the past when I was a kid I DIDN'T LIKE THEM!I know what most people around me think though!They dislike those industries for some reason.WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY IS!They are taking land away.They are doing more damage then us!They are the takers..they are making money.What we are doing is recreation man!Aren't they different to you!I don't want to see anyone lose jobs or anything but I mean when they close public land can't they close some of it to loggers and miners and but not to 4 wheelers.And by the way im not a liberal conservative repulican or democrat!Im just 17!I do however favor repuplicans more.I dont know to much about politics just yet.


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post #9 of (permalink) Old 01-06-2001, 01:22 AM
 
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Re: OT-This econazi stuff hasnt bothered me until now

<font face="Comic Sans MS">I'm saying that logging is getting far less destructive and can be used to dramatically increase the health of forests, so it should not be denied access to public lands as well. Think of that as doing us a service by helping keep the fire threat down.

But yes we are recreationalists, and we are responsible for caring for the land we use just as businesses such as loggers are. We are all expected to be responsible stewards of the land. Our OHV's don't generally do much damage except for the occasional uninformed person or the rare case that just doesn't care.

Those industries and recreation interests fit pretty well together. One is helping to keep the forest healthy so we can enjoy it, and the other group is enjoying it. That is how I see it. I also see it that we have all got to stand up together to help ward off the "junk" policies being inflicted on public lands. These policies are in the long run very damaging to the environment and to the public's right to use what is theirs.

The relationship between loggers and recreationists is quite beneficial. They help ensure the health of our forests. That is an essential part of enjoying the forests (I mean that the forest remains healthy). Would you want to go visit a charred patch of earth? I doubt it. I prefer to have forests that are safe from catastrophic fires. I guess that's why I'm all for supporting loggers. Maybe then they'll stand up and help support our form of "multiple use".</font>

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My November article on ORC
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 01-06-2001, 04:23 AM
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Re: OT-This econazi stuff hasnt bothered me until now

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Joey, you have to be real careful about what you see and what you hear in the media; and that is where you have gleaned all of your impressions and your info. After all, have you ever been on a drilling rig? Have you ever harvested timber? So you see, the MEDIA is shaping your total, otherwise-uninformed impressions AND your attitude toward this issue. A few years ago...it has been about eight or nine now....a friend of ours was parked on a Northern Calif logging road with his big low bed and was pulling the chains off getting ready to load a tracked timber harvester. A van load of hippy eco freaks came along and immediately hopped out and began screaming at him: "You're NOT going to cut down this pristine forest! We're going to stop you! We'll get THE MEDIA out here and demonstrate! And if you come back here tomorrow we'll be here again.!" So you see Joey, it made no difference that he had a forest service permit. It made no difference that the stand of timber was "managed". They were DETERMINED to have THEIR way, and to put it on the news for YOU to see at home so they could shape YOU in their own image. The logger in this case looked at those freaks and replied in a very low voice: "I was just leaving. I've already thinned that stand to 48 trees per acre." Those eco-sh#theads didn't even BOTHER to notice that today's modern timber harvesters can ease in and out of a stand without so much as a broken twig if the operator is skilled. But you see, Joey, it's EASIER to scream and get on TV that it is to actually LEARN ANYTHING about timber harvesting.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif[/img]Those same eco-freaks are the ones responsible for the power crisis in CA because they have systematically; and in an uninformed enviro-stupor; fought every power plant for the last 25 years. Their willing accomplices in Sacramento the democraps who take their campaign money are STILL not being truthful about the power thing and are blaming it on deregulation and on the power companies. It is my fervent hope that the truth will come out and the Sierra Club will take their last hike.....to hell.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif[/img] And one more thing, Joey. Don't EVER use the word "Gay". The word is Ho-Moe-SEX-U-All. The word gay is another media tool that the homos have used to disguise exactly what it is that they want you to approve of. [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif[/img] Don't get sucked in like the dumbed-down products of our liberal school system. LOOK at these issues somewhere besides the NEWS MEDIA!

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