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post #1 of (permalink) Old 12-13-2000, 07:37 AM
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ARCS twin stick rear brakes??

I was noticing that by the last round of the ARCA series, most of the top teams had the dual rear hand brake systems installed. The setup can be seen on the new Currie jeep that was at the SEMA show.
I'm trying to figure out how this is set up and used. It looks simply like two ebrake levers, but I doubt the mechanical setup is that simple. They seem to be using it to allow the vehicle to turn more sharply by pivoting on one of the rear wheels locked up. Assuming they are using detroit lockers, would the rear end differentiate in this situation?

One article seemed to suggest that what they are doing is locking one of the rear wheels, then using fwd and spinning the fronts to pivot the rear around the locked wheel. I'm having trouble seeing this working in my mind.

Perhaps someone who has seen these setups in action can explain what they are doing with them.

You would lock the rear wheel on the INSIDE of the turn, correct?

Also, is it necessary to SPIN the front wheels, or will simply driving forward in fwd, rear wheel locked, and the wheels cranked in the direction of the turn dramatically decrease the turning radius?

The reason why I ask this is that I am in the middle of swapping in an NP435 and EBD20 into my YJ. The Dana 20 has fwd capability if I remove an interlock pin. I wasn't going to do this because while I could see the advantage to 2wdLo, until I started hearing about this I couldn't see the need on a consistent basis for fwd.

I do a lot of rock crawling and decreasing turning radius would be a great benefit, but I am concerned that the technique used to achieve this not be too hard on my drive train (4.0, NP435, D20, D44s, detroits, 4.88, 35 SXs).

Oh yeah, I was also just about to install a hand ebrake.... wouldn't be a big deal to install 2 instead of 1!

The currie jeep, of course, uses some really trick levers and actuating mechanism to achieve this..... is there any reason why it would not be possible to achieve the same effect simply by installing twin hand brake levers, one hooked to the ebrake cable from each side of the rear axle?

In other words, is the trick currie setup doing anything besides being trick that I can't reproduce in a less 'unobtanium' way?

Thanks for any input.

Chad




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post #2 of (permalink) Old 12-13-2000, 08:22 AM
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Re: ARCS twin stick rear brakes??

For what it's worth....farm tractors and sand rail/dune buggys used this independent rear brake setup to help turn, either in mud or sand. I'm pretty sure that these vehicles did not have any diffs. other than open. In mud therefore the wheel that is spinning, the one with less traction, is the one that gets the brake applied forcing the other, the one with more traction, to pull. In sand or even dry pavement, the vehicle will turn faster if the inside rear wheel's brake is applied. The single locked rear wheel/front wheel drive scenerio I think would just drag the locked rear wheel. Sand rails also have used a valve with a handle to proportion the pressure from the brake pedal to each rear wheel seperately. These usually do not have front brakes. I have also seen setups with a single mechanical lever for both rear wheel emergency application with two smaller handles for seperate application.

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 12-17-2000, 10:48 AM
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Re: ARCS twin stick rear brakes??

Yes, that's the way it's done. I installed dual E-brakes on the Scrambler, helped a lot with the open diffs, but have not had a chance to work them with the lockers. Just be careful with the locker in the front, turn it too tight under power and "snap" goes the u-joints.

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 12-17-2000, 12:26 PM
 
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Re: ARCS twin stick rear brakes??

Im not one to argue with the Curries and some of their ideas, but I sure dont see how that could work that well. For one thing the rear drums wont even hold against the 200:1 ratios now being incorporatde into the rigs. I forgot to release the E brake on hill and snapped the driver side drum shoes in the D35 I was running last year with 122:1 ratio and a 4.0. Then I did it again this year to the Ford 8.8 with the 2.5 installed. I suppose with some practice you get it shimmy the front one way or another, but it seems like just another gimmick to me.

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 12-18-2000, 12:08 AM
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Re: ARCS twin stick rear brakes??

I've actually found out some more, including the technique used:

It only works with twin sticks that allow FWD. The inner REAR tire is locked using one of the twin sticked rear brakes, and the transfer case is put into FWD lo. This disconnects the rear axle from the drive train. The front tires are turned in the desired direction, and the gas is mashed to spin the front tires. The combination of spinning front tires and locked inside rear spins the vehicle on the spot.

While it works, it is REALLY hard on u joints, and basically is useful only to those trying to avoid (At all costs) 2 points for backing up and reversing. In my real world, I don't get deducted for backing up, so I think I will leave this one on the shelf for now. I don't think my D44 297 u joints are gonna take much of that abuse.

Chad

post #6 of (permalink) Old 12-18-2000, 08:06 AM
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Re: ARCS twin stick rear brakes??

what ever happened to treading lightly anyways? Isn't it easier (sometimes) just to back up and turn rather than spinning out and ripping up all the terrain just so you can make a tighter turn? I realize that in some situations it could be necessary, but c'mon now...

post #7 of (permalink) Old 12-18-2000, 11:36 AM
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Re: ARCS twin stick rear brakes??

The damage to the environment is a good point, and added to my concern about damage to my front axle means I probably won't be implementing this.....

Keep in mind that this technique is used by rock crawlers in ARCA events who are trying to avoid losing 2 points during a competition. They also have very large front axles (generally) with large u joints to take the abuse.

When I wheel I don't lose 2 points for backing up.

Chad

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