Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down. - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups
Jeep-Short Wheelbase All discussion of short wheelbase Jeeps: CJ, TJ, YJ and JK

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of (permalink) Old 12-12-2000, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Ohio
Posts: 786
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down.

I've heard about it but didn't think it could happen to me. (Sound familiar?) What I have is a freshly rebuilt, less than 500 miles, 304 mated to a TF-999 automatic. This is in a totally rebuilt cj7 that i've been working on for about 4 years. Shortly after I got it fired up for the first time it started the dreaded grind. Not every time but it's becoming more common. I've pulled the inspection plate and I can see that the expected damage is being done to the ring gear teeth.

Last night I bought and installed a shim for a ford type starter. It was all that was on the shelf and I "assume" it would work ok. The shim was approx. 1/8" thick. After installation I fired her up and what a racket. I could hear a scraping sound with every revolution. Needless to say I killed it real quick. Prior to the shim, with the vehicle running, I would hear a slight "tinging" sound occasionaly. Almost as if something was juuust barely making contact now and again. I assumed that this would be the starter gear whacking the ring gear as the ring rotated and this tight clearance also being the cause of my occasional grind. I figured with the shim I'd get a little more clearance between the two but it sounded as if it got a whole helluva lot worse.

I removed the shim and am back to the sporadic tinging and occasional but getting worse grind. I realize that I will have to replace the ring gear now at any case and the starter will go also just for good measure but I do NOT want to have to do it over and over. I want to fix the problem the first time around.

Can anyone shed any experienced light on this subject? I'd really like the info of the "Been There Done That" crowd although I do appreciate the input of the folks that haven't.


spook2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of (permalink) Old 12-12-2000, 08:19 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 5,140
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down.

the starter on a 304 shouldnt require any shimming, if it isnt disengaging completely it should be replaced. or as yoiu found out it will quickly ruin your flexplate's ringgear.

Ive put a amc 360 together with a tf727 before and got a wierd squeal screeching sound, which I assumed was that metal spacer inbetween the engine tranny, It never caused any prblems and it went away after several miles, but it was very unnerving, I had several tranny shops and they all said it was common from that thin seperator plate? I never understood what in the hell it was supossed to be squealing agains biut since it went away I never searched any further.

get a new starter and flexplate and fix it, get a warrentied starter and if you hear it not disengaging take it back and swap it, and be sure and tell them they need to find another supplier.



OzarkJeep

"They throw the best damn parties at the Rim of Hell"
ozarkjeep is offline  
post #3 of (permalink) Old 12-12-2000, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Ohio
Posts: 786
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Re: Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down.

It's not that it's not disengaging. It does that just fine. It seems as if it is not ENgaging properly. The grind comes when you just hit the key. It's gotten so I just kind of "bump" the key in case it wants to grind. When it's warm it starts real well so a bump is all it takes in any case.

spook2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of (permalink) Old 12-12-2000, 08:34 PM
Keyboard Implanted
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Southeast Iowa
Posts: 6,394
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down.

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] I recently learned that the way to check the clearances is to use a 1/8" drill rod. If you can slide the rod between the outer surface of the ring gear teeth and the shaft of the starter, that's just right.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
Quadra-Tracs modified While-U-Wait by the crack moonguy[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Quadra-Trac Team.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
CJDave is offline  
post #5 of (permalink) Old 12-12-2000, 08:35 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 5,140
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down.

get another starter, it might have a weak enagage mech. bendix, or solenoid whatever it is, its possible to take it apart and lube it, or find whats causing it to not be held onto the ringgear with enough force top prevent slipping.

I like to just cruise back to Autozone or Oreilly's and let them bench test 2 or 3 more to try and find one that sounds good, and then take that one home.



OzarkJeep

"They throw the best damn parties at the Rim of Hell"
ozarkjeep is offline  
post #6 of (permalink) Old 12-13-2000, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Ohio
Posts: 786
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Re: Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down.

I think I'm done with the AutoDrone crowd. I'll just head down the street to NAPA and pick up a quality NEW part and go from there. Thanks to all for the input.

spook2 is offline  
post #7 of (permalink) Old 12-13-2000, 08:30 AM
Can't Get Enough
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: So. Jersey
Posts: 1,003
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down.

All right here we go. I put a '85 258/T-5/D300 that did not grind into a '79 that had a 258/T-150/D20 that didn't grind either. Then it grinded. With old starters, and lifetime warrenty one. ???? Shimming the starter would only move it away from ring gear forward. Please any and all thoughts.

JimmyZ is offline  
post #8 of (permalink) Old 12-13-2000, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Ohio
Posts: 786
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Re: Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down.

CJ: Now the $64 question. If it does NOT have that 1/8" clearance, what can you do about it??

spook2 is offline  
post #9 of (permalink) Old 12-13-2000, 09:24 AM
Keyboard Implanted
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Southeast Iowa
Posts: 6,394
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down.

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] That spec actually applies to the Chev-Lay starters, but it is NOT unheard of to have to actually file the holes in OTHER starters to get things like they should be. You see; what may be happening is that you are the recipient of a "Tolerance Buildup" within the parts group that makes up your Jeep. If your engine crankshaft has the maximum allowable "offset" to the right or to the left; if your bellhousing has the maximum allowable "offset" in the OPPOSITE direction; and if the hole for the starter has the maximum allowable offset in the SAME direction....EVEN THOUGH each part passed inspection AS IT WAS; together they can produce enough difference all in one direction that the gears are either too close or too far apart. So you see, some filing COULD be necessary to cure the tolerance buildup. Take it from someone who has spent a lot of time "fitting" machinery. Tolerance buildup is a fact of life. That's why you can get a different starter sometimes and the problem goes away. You just happened to find a starter which is WAAAAYY out in the opposite direction that the rest of the stuff is and the error cancels out.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
Quadra-Tracs modified While-U-Wait by the crack moonguy[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Quadra-Trac Team.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
CJDave is offline  
post #10 of (permalink) Old 12-13-2000, 11:43 AM
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Help! Dreaded starter grind has got me down.

Go with CJ Dave. I bought a shim kit from napa for my chevy engine/starter. There is a rod that you stick in between (probably same as the 1/8" drill bit)to help shim it. I even had a few edges of teeth on my flywheel damaged but so far the new starter and shimming it has solved the problems for me.

John
89YJ-350V8,35" swampers,etc.
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome