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post #1 of (permalink) Old 12-10-2000, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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Welder Amp/duty cycle question?

2 questions...

1) what does the duty cycle of a welder tell us? is it how hard the welder is working at the given amperage?

2) im looking at an 85 amp gasless mig welder...110v....how thick of steel coul this doo...enough to weld the tubes on AMC 20? enough to truss it?

thanks

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 12-10-2000, 04:51 PM
 
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Re: Welder Amp/duty cycle question?

duty cycle is allowable run time before it hits thermal shutoff.

for instance, 50% duty cycle at max power, means you can weld 2 minutes solid, then must let it cool for another 2 minutes before welding again.

its the percent of welding time vs cooling time.

85 amp gasless Mig, like a $200 Cambpell hausfield?

it would weld 1/8 or 3/16 clean metal.

nothing thicker without multiple passes.

Ive used a 120 amp Mig ( miller sidekick) a very nice fairly costly 110 V welder, and it got about 50%% penetration on well prepped 1/4 plate on its hottest setting.

110 volt welders just arent really suited to anything but sheetmetal, body work






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post #3 of (permalink) Old 12-10-2000, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Welder Amp/duty cycle question?

so how many amps for weldin the axle tubes of the AMC 20?

thanks


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post #4 of (permalink) Old 12-10-2000, 05:15 PM
 
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Re: Welder Amp/duty cycle question?

the tubes are 1/4 inch thick or more right? my amc20 is a FS hd model with thicker tubes Ive never spent much time with a CJ20.

and the gussets should be 1/4 too.

I mean 85 amps will stick it together, but it wont penetrate it completely, usually things like this are also dependant on how good of a welder you are, the more skilled the welder the less heat down to a point will be required to make a strong union.

to join 2 pieces of 1/4 inch plate youll need 120-150 amps most likely especially with the flux wire, as I dont beleive it penetrates as well as a filler with an inert gas coverage.

this kind of thing could be done better with a stick welder, lincoln makes a 225 amp AC model for $209 if you have a 220 outlet.

ask Farm Jeep, there are a lot of guys on the BBS who have done more of this type weldingthen I have, Ive got more TIG expereince and its totally differnt in this aspect.





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post #5 of (permalink) Old 12-10-2000, 05:31 PM
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Re: Welder Amp/duty cycle question?

My Lincon 125 Plus is rated up to 5/16" and I made my spring outriggers out of 1/4". Its a nice little 110V unit and I've done alot of 1/4 with oh... 85-90% penetration on average. get it set just right and it'll go 100%. It has a respectable duty time on it, and welds very nicely. Its probably alot pricier than the 85 amp, but is well worth the money and quality, esp. if you want to truss your 20.

If you'd like more info, please ask. Also, if you have access to 220V, and will continue to (my issue, I rent an appt) then get it. A welder is a 30 yr investment. Just some food for thought.

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 12-10-2000, 05:51 PM
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Re: Welder Amp/duty cycle question?

I don't think thats going to be near enough welder for the rearend. Even a skilled welder would have to have a bunch of passes to even do a "fair" job.
Like was said..........buy more welder than you need. Money spent today will be saved down the road.

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 12-10-2000, 08:11 PM
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Re: Welder Amp/duty cycle question?

I heard a slightly different version of duty cycle...it's the % it can run out of 10 minutes at full output. For instance, 50% means you can run it 5 out of every 10 minutes while welding.

In regard to shielded gas v. flux core, I use flux core for the vast majority of the mig welding I do, it's cheaper, if done properly can be just as strong, and it was a simple jump since I started with stick welding. If you monitor your stickout distance carefully, and spend a little extra time cleaning the weld between passes, your welds will be just as good. Monitoring the stickout is what will control the penetration of your weld just as much as heat setting and travel speed...

If I was reccomending that someone buy a welder, for everything except body work, as a first welder, I'd strongly reccomend an arc welder. They're cheap, easy to use, will last forever, and are terribly versatile. A decent 220V AC/DC arc welder will weld anything (aluminum, stainless, etc.), will do beautiful welds on materials that are very thick (don't tell anyone, but we've welded 1/2" plate steel with our old Forney 220v...) and can weld thinner materials as well. The disadvantages are chiefly two-fold. 1. The length of weld that you can do uninterrupted is limited by the length of your welding rod (not that big of a deal in a shop setting...bigger deal in production setting) 2. Sheetmetal welding sucks. On the other hand, it's way cheaper to buy, the consumables are cheaper, the welding can be of equal quality, and it prepares you for all sorts of welding, including trail welding with on-board welders and/or batteries.

As far as using a 110v machine to weld 1/4" steel, I've yet to see one that has enough snuff to make welds that I'd consider strong. Multiple passes? You're still only welding _/16" thick. If you ground in and then welded the ground down spot in...it still wouldn't be as strong. The more passes you make, the greater the potential for weld porosity, contamination, and weakness... I put the AMC20 truss on my "to do" list, but haven't gotten to it yet. I'm not sure the thickness of the axle tubes...1/4" is probably about right... I definetly agree with the "buy more welder than you need" comment...because you soon will need more than you need right now. You can probably find a 220V AC/DC arc welder for the same price as a 110V DC mig welder...assuming you have access to 220V power, I'd say that's the way to go--especially if you're not the most experienced welder. The Forney 220V welder we have is over 50 years old, and it still works perfectly.

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 12-14-2000, 06:02 PM
 
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Re: Welder Amp/duty cycle question?

I'm using a Hobart 135 in 110 volt to do narrowed rear ends for race cars. I get good penetration, and if you let it cool down, reasonable burn times.
The 135 comes with gas regulators, so I use the regular wire with a 75% Carbon dioxide- 25% Argon mix, and it seems to work better than the 95/5 mix.

Use the regular wire and gas if you can, you will be so much happier with the welds if you do.
Less splatter, less sputter, and good, clean puddles.

Don't spare the cleaning!! No such thing as "TOO CLEAN" when you are welding with a little welder.

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 12-14-2000, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Welder Amp/duty cycle question?

am i accurate in saying that i can weld thicker stuff with a stick welder than i can with a gasless mig of the same amperage?



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post #10 of (permalink) Old 12-14-2000, 06:33 PM
 
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Re: Welder Amp/duty cycle question?

That is correct. A stick welder will go like crazy at about 45 to 80 amps, but that's not comparing apples to apples.
A wire feed is so much more versatile, and will do the really small and thin stuff that the heat from a stick welder would ruin.

The one thing that a stick welder does have going for it is they are cheap.
You can get a 225 amp stick welder for under $250, but you are looking at a ton of accessories for a stick welder too, and very temperamental rods that you have to have bunches of types to do different things...
The 110V. stick welders are all but useless.

A decent wire welder in 110 v., over 120 amps, with regulator, is going to run you about $350 to $450.
My little hobart was right at $400, but I haven't touched the stick welder but maybe twice since I got it.


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