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post #1 of (permalink) Old 10-01-2000, 12:37 PM
Robert87yj
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Bad Weekend..Venting..Jeeper in need of support.

So here is the story, the abridged version[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]. This weekend was reserved for fixing a possible intake leak, caused by not having any alignment pins in the 4.0 head, that wasn't allowing my MPI computer to slow down so the 4.2 w/ 4.2 head would idle at a normal speed, not 3k rpms.

Saturday morning. I went to a local hardware store to find some hardned washers because the cupped washers that were originally on the manifold bolts on the 4.2 head didn't offer enough coverage to hold down the intake and exaust manifolds and the thin fender washers I got a Lowes were cupped because of being torqued down. I found the hardend washers that I wanted at the hardware store. Then I went to a local auto parts store and picked up some ultra-copper RTV high-temp-700 degree rating to help with sealing.

Saturday Afternoon. I marveled at the speed at which I was able to get everything apart. Took off down pipe, exaust manifold then intake manifold. Went inside to get the magic purple liquid sprayer that I would use to degrease everything before re-assembly. When I looked at the side of the engine I noticed that there were quite a few white streaks starting at the head gasket and continuing down to the bottom of the block. Immediately,<font color=blue> through the amazing power of deduction that owning a Jeep could only give you</font color=blue>, I realized that I would need a new head gasket[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif[/img]. Then when I looked at the exaust manifold I also could tell that cylinders 1,2, and 3 were running rich, and cylinders 3,4, and 5 were running lean[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img].

So after all of my hoping that the manifold leak would be easily solved, I realized that I needed to pull the head. $%&*@[email protected]#[email protected]#[email protected][email protected]$#. After thinking about kicking the Jeep hard enough to break my foot, I decided that I needed to destroy something else beside the Jeep. After an hour of laying beads with my dad's buz box and sucking in some noxious fumes I was ready to work on the Jeep. By this time I had to go get my Jeep Chick from her mothers for what was supposto be our hot date that evening.

Saturday evening Cathy (Jeepchick) and I pulled the head off the Jeep. An evening wasted under the hood. Well, not entirely wasted, I did get the head off while Cathy found out how many of my sockets she could pick up with my magnetic screwdriver while the dog just sat there, content to just be there. Well, atleast she opened the doors for me while I was carrying the head.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Sunday morning In the light I pulled the head out side to have a good look at it.... Now I need to give some background. I'm a fulltime student with a fulltime job. I hardly have time to work on my own Jeep so I had a local mechanic friend of my dad's to rebuild the engine...Back to the head...After inspection, the water jackets that he sealed up looked good. After about 5 minutes I realized the problem. Wait, isn't this a 4.2 head gasket. Aggghhhh. I was a little pissed. I had even given the mechanic the 4.0 head gasket. I was a little relieved though at the same time. All I neeed to do was put a 4.0 head gasket on it and then put everything back together, then everything will work, I hope.


And that is the whole story to this point...
Thanks for listing, reading, what ever you call it on the BBS these days.



Robert87yj[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
4.2 w/<font color=blue>(4.0 head & MPI)</font color=blue>
Process of a moonguy after beer
[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif[/img] [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif[/img]
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 10-01-2000, 02:42 PM
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Re: Bad Weekend..Venting..Jeeper in need of support.

Actually, sounds like a good weekend .. as such you got your baby apart and back together, spent time with JeepChick!

Usually when I spend my time with my JeepChick we end up getting home very late, have a shower (to get the dust outta our hair) and crash hard into the bed, no time to even roll-over before the alarm goes off to wake us for work ..

I was able to get greasy with my JeepChick on Friday .. and a good day that was

Laters!



Vance - Calgary, Alberta, Canada
1985 4x4 S-10 and 1988 Jeep YJ
IRC - Dal.net - #Jeepers
www.calgaryjeep.com
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 10-01-2000, 02:54 PM
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Re: Bad Weekend..Venting..Jeeper in need of support.

Hey sounds like you've got the problem taken care of... all you have to do now is put it back together... Life could be alot worse.

Good Luck
BJ

See you on the pilf side
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 10-01-2000, 06:29 PM
 
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Re: Bad Weekend..Venting..Jeeper in need of support.

Instead of 'support' (you've already had lots of that) how about a kick in the pants? ...

Lots of things are bothering me about your tale...

That buzz box isn't going to help you fix the probem, sounds like a waste of good rod. One thing I have always tried to teach my boy was ... "If it doesn't work, MAKE IT WORK!" Whining counts in the negative direction...

Why no pins? Get some and knock them in! Common steel rod stock will probably work. If not, make somethin work! Hand grind some old bolts if you have to...
While you are at it, get a set of new 4.0, larger, (not 4.2) cupped washers from the Jeep dealer. You should have learned in this forum when Mag/45 told Cindy Allen about these being larger and would work better. You and her were both whining about your 4.0 conversions at the same time. Seems her dist was in 180* off ... as diagnosed here ... but she wouldn't listen either because her husband wouldn't admit he might have screwed up ... until much later ...
If you bought a new 4.0 Fel-Pro or Mopar (I presume, since you were instructed to) gasket, then what did the guy do with it and how do you know if the one you took out isn't that one?
Are you SURE you got a 4.0 gasket? Did you double check this when you bought it.
Like the Rogue Warrior ... "Never assume anything" ...
If not, how and why did it get switched? I don't buy this story ...
Did the wrong gasket create the leaks or did the epoxied jackets? Both?
From the way this tale is going, I'd set the head on and check to see if the correct jackets were epoxied ... wouldn't be surprised at this rate that the primaries were plugged instead of the sometimes offending ones near the manifold edge ...
Why are you so lean/rich? Was the manifold THAT poorly mounted? Or is it water?
Why didn't you check the plugs last month to see this lean/rich problem like you were advised you to? Did you think the problems would go away?
Sorry, no. They usually just get worse. For sure in your case.
That hot mill has been trying to tell you something was wrong.
The white water streaks were tears from your engines' crying for help!
You've just been throwing more water (via 3-core and hi-perf pump) on the fire.
I hope you havn't warped your head and/or valves running around with it in that condition and at those (230* as reported) temps.
Did you install new head bolts as instructed? I sure hope so.
If not DO IT THIS TIME!
And for Pete's sake, use a torque wrench on the manifolds and use the proper sequence ... or were you going to skip that part too?
You know where to find the specs and sequence, don't you ...
How much time (that you said you didn't have in the beginning) have you saved by now???
At least you (should have) learned several very important lessons ...
Learn to do it yourself ... a little late now, but better than never.
Pay attention to detail. Pay attention to detail. Pay attention to detail.
Good advice is worthless unless you follow it.
You'll learn ... (especially through this experience) ...

Your mill will probably be OK. Just put it together right this time...
I won't wish you good luck, it ran out.
You need (to do) good work instead ...



JAF
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 10-01-2000, 09:00 PM
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Re: Bad Weekend..Venting..Jeeper in need of support.

Jaffer, your going to have to ease up a bit. If running a few beads with an Arc welder is strees relief, than let him do it. Just replace your dads rod so he will have some when he needs it. Jaffer is right when he say to check, and double check every modification that was done, because it does sound that you might have a problem with the head swap.

Thanks, Ray

post #6 of (permalink) Old 10-02-2000, 01:01 AM
 
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Re: Bad Weekend..Venting..Jeeper in need of support.

Pffft...try *this* on for size:
Sunday: Remove soft top and install hard top *by yourself*...discover that the bracket on one of the TJ sun visors that you just swapped in is cracked worse than you thought when you reach in to flip the visor out of the way of the top and it lands on the floor.

Monday: Walk outside to start the Jeep before leaving for work...cranks but doesn't start...got fuel, no spark. Take the van, drop your kid at school, come back home and get your wife to drive her to work which is past your job, stop at NAPA on the way back to buy tune-up parts & TFI upgrade parts and find that they don't have the stinkin' pigtail for the coil. Stop at Trak and get a replacement 'can' coil just in case. Get everything up & running then realize you can rig up the TFI coil with your last two spade connectors. That's the last time you put off doing a tune-up since a bad rotor was the source of your trouble.

Tuesday: Walk out early just to make absolutely sure the Jeep will start. Swign your arm down to rest on your center console like you always do only to discover that it's gone along with the radio, CD changer, tools, etc that were in it. Release a few explitives and glance back over your shoulder and see that the folded up duster cover that you had covering your speaker box is laying on the back seat...that's gone too. Get out and look over at your van which you forgot to lock (I never lock the Jeep, the windows are more expensive than anything that's inside) and walk over toward it knowing that you don't *really* want to open the door...console is unhooked from the floor and the CD changer is gone...luckily the thieves didn't have a phillips screwdriver so the TV and VCR are still there.

Thursday: Detect the familiar smell of hot anti-freeze and notice a small amount on the ground near the steering box. Wearing dress pants, so don't crawl underneath to look...don't notice anything from up top.

Friday: Anti-freeze again. Looks to be coming from the lower radiator hose. Stop at Carquest on the way home from anti-freeze and both radiator hoses...kick self for not replacing them when replacing the radiator over the summer.

Saturday: Drive van to work to do a software audit on all of the PC's. Takes about 4 hours longer to finish than you thought. Discover that your assistant really is darn near worthless to you as you do almost twice as many machines. Don't get to work on the Jeeps.

Sunday: Gotta go back to work *again* to bring new hard drives online on the main server. Notice that familar anti-freeze smell in the van on the way in, but think to yourself "No way, can't be *both* vehicles.". Set RAID controller to reconstructwith the new drives and figure you may as well go home for the 4+ hours it'll take and fix the Jeep...walk out to find the Nile running out from under the *rear* of the van...great, blew a line that runs to the rear heater/AC box. Top off with water and drive home like a bat outta hell. Replace the hoses on the Jeep, notice a small leak after a test drive, tighten lower clamp with a ratchet instead of a screwdriver. Eat dinner, then jump in the Jeep to head back to work to bring the server back online and resize the partition. Hop back in the Jeep (it's dark now), backup to see if it marked it's territory...yes, it did. Release a few choice explitives, drive home, grab the drop light from the garage immediately and realize that the hose was never the problem...it was the frickin' water pump. Release a few choice explitives, go in the house, and make a big-*ss rum-n-coke and figure out how everyone is going to get where they have to tomorrow and both vehicles are going to be repaired.

Top that [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 10-02-2000, 01:17 AM
 
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Re: Bad Weekend..Venting..Jeeper in need of support.

Although I sympathize with your story,Jeepskates got you topped.Oh yeah,Ive got my own stories but it really manically deppresses me when it comes to mind.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 10-02-2000, 02:19 AM
Robert87yj
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Re: Bad Weekend..Venting..Jeeper in need of support.

Jaffer,
about welding, I left out what I'm welding because it didn't go with the intent of the post. Since you might want to know, I wasn't being wasteful, I also have my own rod. I have been working on a center consul that is framed up out of 1.25" x 1/8" steel L stock. I get a little done each day. I started it between the summer semester and this fall semester. It should be done here in about a month with a nice vinal covering.

Got some pins and put them in. Slid in nice and easy with a little tapping from a brass hammer.

I got a new felpro gasket earlier this eveing from Advance Auto. It says its for an 87-95 4.0 engine on the sticker. I am going to take it to the local Jeep dealership to compare it with a mopar one.

From what I could see, the leak was only on the manifold, drivers side of the engine. I also found out that the shop that did the rebuild reused my old head bolts after the owner said they would use new ones. It was frustrating to find out what had/hadn't been done during the rebuild. I would have liked to do it my self, but working full-time and taking classes full time have my schedule full, especially in my last year of college. Your son is in college right? If he had a full time job to go along with it would he have enough time to rebuild an engine by himself, with out a second car?

When you suggested to check the plugs, I did. there was no discoloring on any of them. My guess is that it was because the engine didn't have enough miles on it. This was good advice though, my chiltons and haynes manual suggested the same thing.

The primaries aren't plugged. That was my first suspision, so it was one of the first things that I looked at.

The temp ended up settling around 210. So there was a slight change in the temp than what I posted when it was really running hot.

The torque sequence was followed. I made sure of it. I was very careful when torqing the manifold bolts down. I checked the setting on the twist handle after each bolt to make sure that it didn't move.

After all, I'm glad that I had someone else rebuild the 4.2 block, I didn't have time to devote to it when I had to park the Jeep because of the Job and School. I'm just lucky that I had friends/family that could drive me around for a long while until I got my every day driver back on the road.

I try not to whine or complain, actually I make a habbit of not complaining, it wastes too much time. I'd rather get to the heart of the problem and fix it right the first time, but that doesn't always happen. I just wanted to share with those on the BBS my weekend experiences, although by the looks of it Jeepskate has me topped. He had a horroble week, even more computer problems that I had to deal with the office, (I'm in charge of computer support for a large office at the second largest state school in GA). Atleast my weekend didn't have theft involved.

I appreciate you opinions, they are really helpful[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]. I disagree with your opinion about luck, I think that there is plenty to go around. It just leaves us at the worst time, when we realize that no one is perfect.





Robert87yj[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
4.2 w/<font color=blue>(4.0 head & MPI)</font color=blue>
Process of a moonguy after beer
[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif[/img] [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif[/img]
post #9 of (permalink) Old 10-02-2000, 12:36 PM
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Re: Bad Weekend..Venting..Jeeper in need of support.

I feel for both of you guys, and you're right - nobody is perfect. We've all done things that are wrong, or didn't do things we should have done. [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

I am surely not meaning to singe out Jeepskate, but the number of Jeeps I see without alarms in them surprises me. [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] A simple motion alarm, that connects with 2 wires and mounts under the hood is very cheap - I've seen them as low as $49.95. Combine that with a basic hood lock and you're reasonably protected. Yeah, we've all heard alarms going off in parking lots and been annoyed, but I still turn my head when I hear one, and I don't think too many "street-urchins" will stick around rumaging around in a Jeep with an alarm going off inside it.

My alarm is a simple Audiovox (not top of the line by any means) but it works, and I've never lost anything from inside my Jeep. Plus I'd really like to see someone try to get my stereo out from inside that Tuffy console. [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif[/img] I've lost things from inside my friends' Jeeps, though. [angry]

Sorry to get up on a soapbox, but theft just really really REALLY irritates me. [angry][angry][angry]

Good luck with your repairs guys,
Pete

88YJ,4"susp,33"BFGMT,9kwinch,homemade swingout,258,999,4.10,weber32/36,GMHEI,one moonguy[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 10-02-2000, 12:55 PM
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Re: Bad Weekend..Venting..Jeeper in need of support.

hmmm... I guess [angry] isn't a moonguy. [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

how about [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

My turn to use up bandwidth today. [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Pete

88YJ,4"susp,33"BFGMT,9kwinch,homemade swingout,258,999,4.10,weber32/36,GMHEI,one moonguy[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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