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post #1 of (permalink) Old 09-29-2000, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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Are 6-lugs very important plus others?

Okay...here's my latest thinking. I was going to swap in a 44 up front a an 8.8 in the rear and convert the 8.8 to 6-lugs. Well, now I think I'll convert the 44 to 5 lugs. This is assuming that the rims I have on my stock axles will have the same lug pattern as the 8.8. Will they? Following me? Is there a real advantage to 6-lugs? That much added strenght? Also, with 35" tires and stock gears, will I be screwed? My thought is that I'll put my 4.5" lift on and then get some 35" tires....then later on change my axles and ratios and get my SYE. What do you all think?

1993 Wrangler 4.0/5spd, all stock...but not for long!!!!
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 09-29-2000, 10:58 AM
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Re: Are 6-lugs very important plus others?

I think the whole number of lugs in what circle thing boils down to a choice between integrating axles (it's easier to not have to change the bolt pattern on one or both axles) and trail swapping. I have waggy axles with 6 bolt wheels. Do I notice any difference between the 6 bolts and 5 on 4.5 I had before? No, other than I had to buy new wheels, and if I had a flat on the trail (and my spare was flat also) I can't borrow a tire from another jeep because it will likely have the wrong bolt pattern.

I believe the 8.8 DOES have the same bolt pattern as a stock jeep (5 on 4.5), and if it were me and I had to change one of those axles I'd change the 6 bolt to 5 on 4.5 just because on the trail I'd have more people I could 'borrow' from in an emergency..... but I don't know what's involved in change the 6 bolt to 5 on 4.5, or if it's even possible.

With stock gearing, you won't be 'screwed' but you will notice 5th gear is all but useless on the highway. My advice: go for the 35s. If you get smaller tires for the gearing, you will just end up selling them for bigger tires later on.

Keep in mind that you will almost certainly have to get new wheels anyway, even if the bolt pattern remains the same because stock wheels are not wide enough and have so much backspacing that with much wider tires you'll have too much interference and no turning radius. Go for cheap black steel - cheap, and no crying involved really when they get battle scarred, and they will.

Do you have the axles yet? If not, you might want to consider going D44 front and rear from a wagoneer or scout so that they both have the same bolt pattern. I know the 8.8 is somewhat stronger and has disk brakes, but ..... just a thought. Axle swaps seem a lot easier when you aren't trying to integrate different axle sets.

Chad

http://www.chadlloyd.rockcrawler.com/Jeep.html

post #3 of (permalink) Old 09-29-2000, 12:16 PM
 
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Re: Are 6-lugs very important plus others?

One thought on keeping the 6 lug front 44 and switching the 8.8 to 6 lug, the 44 has the larger 6 on 5.5 wheel pattern which allows use of a much stronger hub than a 5 on 4.5. Wheelers that use their vehicle hard can tell you that the 5 on 4.5 hub is not nearly as strong as an internally splined hub you can get for your 44 front. You gotta get new wheels anyway so go with the 6 lug 8.8 in the rear. It's pretty simple to redrill your shafts flanges to 6 on 5.5 pattern. You should have a machine shop do this as it must be exact. As to being able to find extra spares on a trail. All Toyota pick ups and 4runners use this pattern, as well as GM 1/2 ton 4x4's. You have a wrangler so I assume it is still the stock 5 n 4.5 lug pattern, if this is the case you would better off going to a 6 on 5.5 on the 8.8. Of course to confuse you even more, another option is to go to 5 on 5.5 on both axles(CJ bolt pattern), and you know how many of these you see on the trails. Just my 2 cents worth, and you know what they say about opinions.

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 09-29-2000, 02:09 PM
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Re: Are 6-lugs very important plus others?

To convert the front 44 to 5 lug still leaves you with different bolt patterns front and rear. The rear is 5 on a 4.5" circle and you can't convert the front to that pattern. Your wheel lugs would end up somewhere in the area of the locking hubs. I'm going from memory of an earlier post so don't quote me, but I believe that H8monday (Jeff) kept his front 44 as six lug and used a spacer which bolts onto the rear. This spacer then has the 6 on 5 bolt pattern to convert the rear to be the same as the front. It also puts the rear width to be a closer match to the front (I think). No need then for custom machining axles (and doing it again if one breaks) and the spare will fit on either end.

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 09-29-2000, 02:58 PM
 
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Re: Are 6-lugs very important plus others?

You wont be able to change the front D44 to a 5 on 4 1/2 pattern. the outer hubs are to big to fit through the 5 on 4 1/2 wheel openings. When I did my swap I, I swapped the front to 5 on 5 1/2 (why, Im not really sure???) then iI used adapters in the rear to go from 5 on 4 1/2 to 5 on 5 1/2. I could have changed the hubs to 5 on 5 1/2 at the rear, when I bought my Moser high strength axles, but I decided to just stay with 5 on 4 1/2 and use adapters so that I could swap replacement parts from the Junk yard if necessary. The easiest way to do it would be to stay with D44 6 bolt pattern in the front and adapters in the rear to match. The adapters by the way are extremely strong, and really should not ever be a strength issue, (just a $65 x 2, issue), but it does allow you to borrow a stock Wrangler wheel and tire in an emergency, by just removing the adapter.

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I take my Jeep "On the Rocks",usually "With a Splash of Addrenalin"
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 09-29-2000, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are 6-lugs very important plus others?

If I go with 35" tires and keep my stock axles, will they hold up okay? Then, when I get the money I'll either swap 2 44s or a 44 and an 8.8. What about that? Thanks for everyones help!

1993 Wrangler 4.0/5spd, all stock...but not for long!!!!
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 09-29-2000, 05:23 PM
 
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Re: Are 6-lugs very important plus others?

I could barely keep enough parts on board to keep with the breakage, when running 35 and stock axles. Front, axle U joints(10 in a few months)front driver side axle shaft (1),front passenger inner shaft (2), Rear driver side axle shaft(1) rear passenger axle shaft(2), rear yoke (3), front yoke (1). Thats an example of my breakage for about 3 months on hard core trails. I figured at one time I was averaging about 6 hours of actual hard trail driving time between failures. And I had a lot of aftermarket upgrades. 35s are a lot of meat for the stock axles to cope with.

Jeff
89 Wrangler
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 09-29-2000, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are 6-lugs very important plus others?

Okay, now what if, in this time of me having 35" tires and stock axles, I don't do any hardcore trail?. I just stick to playing around and getting used to the new setup. Do you think I'll still break stuff quite easy? Also, Jeff, if you come across any 8.8's, let me know what they're going for and where you found them. Thanks a bunch!

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 09-29-2000, 10:41 PM
 
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Re: Are 6-lugs very important plus others?

James, your cracking me up!
You are just dying to get those big meats on your ride arent you?
You should be ok on moderate trails, but pack some spare parts. My freind in Reno ran some 35s on his stock YJ also, for quite a while. He had the 3.07 gears so really didnt have the low gears to bust his axles before his Yokes would give out. So carry front and rear yokes and some 1310 U joints, and learn the technique for replacing yokes, you cant overtighten the pinion nuts or youll bind the bearings, due to the crush sleeve design. I would carry at least one spare front axle U joint also.
Read that post on the 8.8 axles from earlier today, there were some potential leads for affordable 8.8 axles there.

Jeff
89 Wrangler
I take my Jeep "On the Rocks",usually "With a Splash of Addrenalin"
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