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Regsitered to Vote - & not just doing MY part...

668 views 13 replies 5 participants last post by  **DONOTDELETE** 
#1 ·
Yes, I am now registered to vote! And I am not just doing MY part, I talked my wife into registering too /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

That's 2 votes for Bush come election day - you can bet on that! /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

You've got till Friday to register if you haven't yet... and this is one heck of a good time to get in the game - we stand to lose a lot if Gore gets in office /wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

 
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#3 ·
Believe me, I get ill when I consider the possibility of a Gore administration, but I've recently been learning about the Libertarian ideology and Harry Browne's candidacy for president. Though he has no shot at winning this November, he stands for a TRUE constitutional federal government, much more so than good ole George Dubyah.

So I feel compelled to vote Libertarian, but I don't know if I could live with the guilt if Gore was announced the winner on 8 November. But people voting Libertarian now is the only way the party will be able to compete in the future. If you want to find out more about the Libertarian ideology, or haven't at least heard of Harry Browne, go to www.harrybrowne2000.org.

BTW-Libertarians favor repealing all gun laws and oppose government control of public land (which are two issues that I've noticed come up often on this board).

Just food for thought and I wanted to let others be aware of third party candidates. Goodness knows that the media doesn't do a fair job representing all candidates.
 
#4 ·
Third Party votes - thrown away

Although I can really understand your desire to vote third party - you have to realize that it will only serve to HELP Gore get into office...

You have to understand that this is not as simple as voting for the "best man". This is more about voting for the person who you feel best represents YOUR goals - but that person must have a chance of even getting elected!

Consider this - You know as well as everyone else that this race will be won by either GORE or BUSH. There is no possibility of any other outcome. Knowing this, you should vote for either BUSH or GORE - whichever one aligns better with YOUR goals for a president. You may not like Bush as much as a Browne, but Browne CAN'T WIN. So do you have a better chance of swaying BUSH to make the decisions you want made, or do you have a better chance of swaying GORE to make the decisions you want made?

You have to see that a third party vote - especially in a situation like this where every vote matters - will get you FURTHER from your desired results. "Protest" votes and votes for third party candidates are just plain being thrown away...

 
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#5 ·
Re: Third Party votes - thrown away

Very good point, DRM, and I understand it well. But if I and millions of other people vote for Bush (or Gore for that matter) instead of Browne, how do we ever get out of this cycle of voting for the "lesser of two evils?" If I vote Republican, that vote is going to be perceived as an endorsement of Bush, rather than a protest against Gore, once all the votes are tallied. And worst of all, it will appear that nobody subscribes to the Libertarian ideology, which I think is untrue. The numbers just don't show it because people always vote for the "lesser of two evils."

Bush's federal government may not be as bloated as Gore's, but it will still be bloated.

One other thing--I think Browne will steal as many votes from Gore as he will from Bush on account of his positions on legalizing drugs, tolerance of homosexuals, etc. Not that he endorses those things, but he believes (and rightly so) that it is no business of the federal government.

I guess my question is, how do we ever get out of this two party system, where both sides are slowly taking our freedom?
 
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#6 ·
Re: Third Party votes - thrown away

Good question, CJ7_2521, and I'll try to answer it.

There is really no chance whatsoever that Browne will win, but he can hurt Bush. A vote for Browne, as pointed out elsewhere, amounts to a vote for Gore.

If you really want to make a third party viable, you start from the bottom up, not from the top down. You put a Libertarian in as County Commissioner or City Counselor or something else modest, then built up to the point where you have a State Representatives, then Congressmen and so forth.

I agree with you wholeheartedly: Bush is mushy on guns. At least by my standards: hell, I believe anybody should be able to sell or buy and kind of gun anywhere, at any time to anybody with absolutely NO government intervention. And anybody should be able to pack one concealed anywhere, anytime with no government interference. Misuse a gun and you should get swiftly, fairly and effectively prosecuted. Unless some armed guy caps you off while you're committing the offense.

So I'll be voting Bush next month, even though I agree more with Browne. It's like my jeep: it's gotta work in the real world, not just in theory. Pretty theories won't haul you through snowdrifts or mudholes. They're just pretty theories.

45-auto
Bone stock '81 CJ7.
"You can always see it coming. But you can never stop it."
-- Cowboy Junkies.

http://www.televar.com/~bthomas/index.html
 
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#7 ·
Unfortunately for the libertatians, our Govt. is always going to be run as a 2 party system, it will take a major catastrophy, like the fight over slave states that brought in the Republican party in the 1850s, to change it. The Libertarian, Reform, American Taxpayers' parties are basically offshoots of the Republican party that went their separate ways over policy decisions and too many compromises with the liberals. When they left, they lost most of their voice in the system. The Democrats keep more of their factions together, and therefore have more clout because of it. They focus on the end goal, creeping forwards, even letting things slip a little, if it suits their ends. (Fabian Socialism).

Yes, G.W. isn't the greatest, but he sure is a lot better than Algore.

If we don't hang together, we'll surely hang separately!
(Ben Franklin.)

 
#8 ·
We recently voted in a third party candidate as the Governor of Minnesota. However..Jesse was a great mayor of a local suburb, and has lived here in MN most (if not all) of his life. He had a strong grass roots backing and was elected by the people. He has been a fantastic state leader so far (don't believe the garbage that the natl. media spews about him) and will be in the future. Unfortunately you need BIG name recognition to get elected to the highest office of the country. And unfortunately, Browne doesen't have it. I also believe in a constatutionalist government, but we really are not voting for the best man...just against the worst one in a unified fashion. Two for Bush!

Mike H.
1983 CJ-7 Laredo
2000 Durango SLT

I can't go to work today...the voices said "Stay home and clean your guns!"
 
#9 ·
This has nothing to do with the presidency but it does have something to do with choosing the lesser of two evils. A few years back you all might remember the great Louisiana Governors race where Edwin Edwards was goin up agaist David Duke. Edwin Edwards had charges of racketeering and other things brought up against him from his last time in office. I think he was acquitted of all those charges but it still puts it in the back of your mind. David Duke was a former Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Clowns/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif. He has so called distanced himself from those associations. Which would you choose to represent your state? The lesser of the two evils. I chose Edwards. Like the others before me have said, third party candidates for this presidency have about as much chance of getting elected as I have of going to bed with Shania Twain. This election will be between Bush/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif and Bore/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif. It's as simple as that! If you vote for any third party candidate you will just be helping Bush or Bore get in office. Just like Perot did for Klinton. Just my thoughts, and nothing more.

I may not like what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
Semper Jeep
 
#10 ·
/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif In 1992 I was disgusted with the situation in WA and voted for Ross Perot. That enabled the scumbag to get elected and we got eight years of sh*t, and crap. In 1992, the scumbag got 43% of the vote. Only 26% of the American people voted, so 43% of 26% is 11%!!!!! 11% of the votors put that scum in office because myself and misguided others like me believed we could make a difference and instead we ended up screwing the US worse that what could ever be imagined. RIGHT NOW, sneaky democrat operatives are ENCOURAGING people to vote Libertarian, and even funneling money into the campaign. Why? Because they KNOW that everone who does would have voted for Bush, and they NEED that voting bloc to pull away from Bush and allow Gore to win. I regret voting for Perot more that any thing I have ever done. I hold myself PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for the eight years that the US has been fuc8ed over by a scumbag. PLEASE DON'T VOTE for a third party. It will assure the election of Clinton#2, and the further demise of this once-great nation./wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

CJDave
Quadra-Tracs modified While-U-Wait by the crack moonguy/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Quadra-Trac Team./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
 
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#11 ·
Thanks all for sharing your insight. I know full well that Browne won't come close to winning. I also know that when forced to choose between Bush and Gore, I pick Bush 100 out of 100 times. I get the impression from this thread, however, that most of us (if not all) agree with the Libertarian ideals more so than Republican or Democrat. And if this thread could be used as a sample of a much larger population (be it all voting Republicans or the general public), I just think it is a tragedy that the majority of people vote out of fear, rather than for a candidate that more accurately represents their ideals. Imagine if everyone were informed and took a stand on election day.

Good point about Governor Ventura. Sure, he did have a big name in his favor (without his name recognition I'm not sure he would have won). But before the election, he was only polling at about 10%, which doesn't qualify him to be in televised debates. Once he managed to somehow work the system and participate in the debates, the entire election took a huge turn. My point is, that in the national elections candidates are not eligible to participate in debates unless they're polling at at least 15%, which excludes third party candidates every election (since Perot). So it's an UNFAIR catch-22: you need to debate in order to gain popularity, but you can't debate until you have a statistical (not mathematical) chance of winning. What are these Republicrats afraid of?! Let the little guys in the debates! But that's another can of worms.

Anyhow, my original intent was simply to spread the Libertarian word to those whom I think would appreciate it (and I think this audience is appropriate). So just learn about it, tell your friends and family, and think about maybe voting your conscience in the next local and state elections, if not the national elections, so that we CAN start from the bottom-up/grass roots. As a major national party, the Whigs ceased to exist only 12 years after a Whig candidate was elected President. It can happen in our lifetime, and wouldn't it be nice if the Libertarians replaced the Democrats as one of the major parties?

Alright, I'll stop dreaming now. It's just frustrating for me to want to be free to keep the money I earn, decide how I want to save for retirement, not have to pay for welfare and failing public school systems (and hundreds of other rediculous programs), carry a gun if I want, and tread lightly on public land. I want and think it's my right to have all these things, but I can't do a damn thing about it. So I guess I vote Republican in the hopes that I get to keep 70% of my paycheck, instead of the 68% that I'd keep if a Democrat is elected.


 
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#12 ·
CJDave-
At the risk of sounding like Luke Skywalker correcting Yoda, a couple of your remarks are not accurate. The fact is, out of all registered Libertarians (all 3 of them /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif), 1/3 are former Republicans, 1/3 Democrats, and 1/3 Independents. So, Browne steals votes equally. And the paranoid remark about Democrat operatives funneling money into the Libertarian campaign couldn't be further from the truth. Brown only accepts individual donations of less than $1000 each from his grass-roots supporters, and he has been running on a campaign way under $1 million. In fact, this year for the first time, he has raised enough to be eligible to receive a matching amount from the federal government, BUT HE TURNED IT DOWN! That's right. He refused a butt-load of money that could really help him because it violated his belief that taxpayers should be responsible for financing political campaigns.

And about feeling responsible for Klinton being elected. Sure, he is a criminal and a disgusting scumbag that should have been thrown out of office, but how has his administration directly affected you PERSONALLY (other than sending you into fits of rage over his lies and perversions)? Taxes have gone up a couple percent, but they also did when Bush Sr. was in office. Aside from that, I still pay high taxes, have a lousy HMO, and have the same public schools to choose from. Would your life PERSONALLY have been any better had Bush Sr. been elected to a second term (and then Quayle runs in '96 as his successor)?

Both major parties are heading us towards socialism, it's just that the Republicans are moving at a slightly slower clip. Vote Republican if you think it will delay the course this country is headed, just learn and be informed about Libertarians. Please take a few minutes to read the website www.harrybrowne2000.org. I realize it's propaganda just like anything else when you hear one side of the story, but I believe in hearing all sides before making an informed decision.
 
#13 ·
/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Well, for ONE thing, the scumbag just vetoed the marriage tax penalty, that DIRECTLY affects my bottom line. Scuumy has also sold our defense to the Chinese; weakened the military..... MY ONLY DEFENSE against outside threat to my homeland....and has given super "police state type" powers to the now combined CIA-FBI bunch to kick in MY door in the guise of fighting "terrorism". THAT didn't exist before the Clintreno days. As far as the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 stats go,I just can't buy that. No self-respecting liberal democrat would even THINK of considering joining a Libertarian party, or even THINKING like a Libertarian. The democrats that make up gores voting base are wayyyyy too socialistic for that in so many ways, from unionism to the gimme-more-welfare bunch. The only thing that democrats have in common with the third party is the first three letters. After that they lose interest. You may be discounting the effectiveness of sneaky party operatives here. There are more ways to promote a candidate than handing him a check. Do you remember the name DONALD SEGRETTI? Now THERE was a sneaky operative. Paranoid? Maybe. But if you aren't a little paranoid, isn't the only other open category: "victim"./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
Quadra-Tracs modified While-U-Wait by the crack moonguy/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Quadra-Trac Team./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
 
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#14 ·
You know what really pisses me off with the presidential vote is the electoral college crap. In 1992 the majority of voters in the state of Colorado voted for Bush over Clinton. Who got the electoral college's vote from Colorado though? It was Clinton!!!! What a bunch of horse$hit that was! I just don't understand what the deal is with the electoral college. The people spoke, but nobody seemed to be listening. I'm still casting my vote though. As a side note, if anybody doesn't vote because they don't want to take the time, use an absentee ballot. The governor's office in Colorado sent a form to all registered Republicans (the Gov. is Republican) to mail in so that an absentee ballot will be sent to them and their votes will be heard. I think it's great and it doesn't get any easier for me to cast my vote.

'75 CJ5,258 w/Howell EFI,T18a,4.27's,33's,On-board air,Warn 8274
 
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