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post #1 of (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 01:28 PM
sheesley
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vehicle design project questions???

I am enrolled in a senoir year engineering program where we must design and build and basic utility vehicle to seat 4 people and pull 1000 pounds. It must fit in the rear of a pickup truck and go at least 25 MPH. We are at the beginning stages and I am accepting input ideas on suspension and which kind of engine to use. I want to keep it simple to fix and put together....what do you guys think? I have some ideas of four-wheeler based plans with modified suspensions??? ANY IDEAS WOULD HELP!!! And I will be asking for more input later as the project progresses!

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~~TIM~~

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 01:43 PM
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Re: vehicle design project questions???

What kind of budget do you have to work with? How about availability of resources (engines, junkyards, etc?).

IMHO, the best idea would be to start with an already short track, and modify it. Take a Subaru for example. Up here, there are a few guys that cut them down and make off-road rigs out of them, looks as long as a bathtub, but still have the flex due to the independent suspension. Just graft the whole thing onto a tube chassis and add large tires. We did something similar in skool, but please give us more specifics.

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 02:12 PM
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Re: vehicle design project questions???

i actually put some thought into this for you.... with the parameters you stated.... build a boat.. you didn't say it neede wheels... then the rest is easy...

~~Elusive~~
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 02:27 PM
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Re: vehicle design project questions???

is this considered cheating?


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post #5 of (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 02:30 PM
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Re: vehicle design project questions???

Pull 1000#'s...rolling? or pull a 1000# cement block across pavement? Pull and operate on flat level surfaces? Or pull and operate on varied surfaces? 4wd? 2wd? 4ws? Bench or bucket seats?

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 02:57 PM
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Re: vehicle design project questions???

just get a suzuki samuria. you can fit one of those in the back of a pickup right!?!? you'll need to loos some wieght so get rid of the front end and x-case and make a lighter wieght front axles that would turn it to 2wd. then all you have to do is make a rear drive shaft from the parts of the 3 remaining drive shafts (samurai's have a divorced mounted x-case) then loose more parts as you go along to get yourself under the wieght limit. like hood, fenders, fender flares, swap the seats for the rci plastic race seats, etc. you can really loose some wieght off of a vehicle if you want to. you could also sell the parts you take off to other suzuki owners. the ones i know can't seem to get thier hands on enough parts. anyway just another option.

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 03:47 PM
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Re: vehicle design project questions???

We have a budget of $10,000....They are many specifications which can be changed and I didn't want to bore people with a long list....It basically needs to seat 2-4 people (removable seats for more cargo space) And be small enough to fit in the bed of a truck and ship easily. Must pull a trailor (rolling) with 1000 pounds. It is labeled a BUV Basic Utility vehicle and will have an onboard generator. I have had some people bring up a hydrostaic drive and steering system...with a diesel engine. I have been contemplating about this right now? Any suggestions....AND BTW We can use ANY outside help....if this turns out good...we get to go to Indianapolis and compete in some BUV competition...Thanks Again
~~TIM~~

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 04:25 PM
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Re: vehicle design project questions???

With a $10,000 budget, you oughta start from scratch. Weld yourself a frame, either tube or square channel. If you wanna go hydrostatic, consider getting the drive system off of a large lawnmower??? 2wd is all that's needed to move a 1000# rolling load (over level ground, right?) As light as it's gonna be, I'd suggest manual steering. Hydraulic steering would be a nice perk, but could also add needless complexity. Basically, your vehicle can't be bigger than 4x8...Hmmm. That limits you to 2 people side by side in any semblance of comfort. What about this...Bench front seat and bench rear seat, rear seaters face aft. Front and rear seats share seat back, roll bar, roof (if applicable). Under the shelf created by the bottom of the front and rear seat, you put your power unit. Now, you could go front wheel drive easily enough (use a sami front axle, or use an IFS from a 4x4 fourwheeler) and the advantage of that would be that you could have a very low rear axle and a nice, flat flatbed in the rear upon which you could place cargo. Removal of the rear seats wouldn't be neccesary, the shelf that it creates would take up minimal space in the cargo area. Or, if you could make the powerplant and transmission fit solely under the front seat, you could have a fold-down rear jump seat a la extended cab pickups (or C-130's, take your pick). Either way, you have a very low, flat platform for your cargo, and you have a simple, durable rear axle to carry your load. On the other hand, you could use the same design and make it RWD (sami axle?) and have a slightly higher cargo platform...maybe have wheel wells like a pickup to clear the axle/tires and still keep the bed low? Do you get extra points for a dump bed? What about for use of alternative fuels? There's a utility vehicle out there called "Raptor" that uses 4 hydraulic motors powered off of a diesel engine...True 4wd, very compact, no need for cumbersome differentials... Some sort of hydro or electric drive would be way easier than dealing with clutches and trannies...and your powerplant doesn't have to line up with your drive axle(s) at all. Moreover, because there's no driveshaft, your vehicle can be much lower (more stable and easier to load). I'd suggest centrifugal clutches, but there's a lot more complication involved in getting them to have reverse and good speeds/pulling ability.

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 04:46 PM
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Re: vehicle design project questions???

how aout a midget racer with a bench seat bolted to the back??? i have seen 400+hp in these.. no rear drivshaft, and they do fit in a p/u bed

~~Elusive~~
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oh yeah, and a 2000 tj, 4.0, dana 44, nv3550
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 09-12-2000, 06:43 PM
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Re: vehicle design project questions???

You mentioned on board generator...hmmm I'm thinking INTERNAL-COMBUSTION/ELECTRIC HYBRID!! You could use an exsisting generator package as your power plant and provide external power when not in motion. Have your drive system would be a large AC electric motor, or even beter, use one in each wheel. That way you don't need any drive line.
OK now for some FUN math.....

Say your BUV weights 1500lb plus the trailer another 1000lbs, plus people, say thats 3000lbs total
Maximum grade you want to climb: say 10 degrees
Max speed 25mph, that's 2200ft/min
on a 10 degree slope you're lifting 521lbs.
HP=force*velocity/33000
Then all gives you about 35 HP at the wheels, add some margin for friction and losses (not 100% efficient) Let's say 50HP to be safe

WOW this sounds JUST like a CJ2A!!!!

Anyway A 50 HP motor (or 4 12.5 HP motors) is (are) about 40 kilowatts. Size you generator by that, and you will have a huge generator. About 400lbs Because of Newton's Second law there will be a 60 HP motor driving the damn generator.

So you need to make some compromises, maybe you only need to do 25 on flat land, you could cut you power requirements in half. Or 25 without the trailer, then half it again. A 10KW generator is only about 2ft cubed and 200lbs.

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