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post #1 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 05:42 PM
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Kinda OT Electrical Advice-220V

Im getting a stick welder from a friend FREE!!...now I need to get my garage wired for 220. I put in 220 service but now need to get an appropriate breaker to wire a plug-in. The welder is 230 volt, would a 50 amp breaker work??

This welder has got a future for jeep accessories!!!!!

Everyday travel is off-roading in this town....
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 06:19 PM
 
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Re: Kinda OT Electrical Advice-220V

50 amp is all the bigger I'd use for any home project.
the larger the wire you use to hook up the outlet, the more efficient the welder is going to be.
Use 6 Ga. solid COPPER, (NO ALUMINUM OR ALLOY) if you can find it, and don't skimp on the outlet.
Use Square 'D' or Hubbell, or it will heat up at the connection.
Don't forget to use 'Oxy-Guard' or some other connection grease on the box connections, and on the outlet connections.
If you want instructions on how to do it your self, let me know.
(NOT RECOMMENDED UNLESS YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT ELECTRICITY.)

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 06:28 PM
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Re: Kinda OT Electrical Advice-220V

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] I'm running my wire feed machine on a 30 AMP breaker, but stick will need a 40 if is kind of dinky, and 50 if it is a bigger unit. The 30 AMP plug is different, so be sure you pay attention to what is on the welder. Just do it this way.....look at the welder plug and the input amperage as marked on the machine, then go to the store and find a plug and breaker which will accomodate that current. TR is absolutely right, DON'T use Aluminum, even if you get it for free. The constant hot-cold-hot-cold that the wire experiences as you weld then quit and then weld som more will cause the aluminum to walk out of the connections and arc, causing a fire and burning down your house.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 09:36 AM
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Re: Kinda OT Electrical Advice-220V

That makes me a little nervous, the main buried service wire I installed is aluminum..huge but aluminum. What affect is the arc going to have on that?? Thats the wire they recomended when I put the 220 service in 4 or 5 years ago.

When you say Square D or Hubbell, are you referring to the outlet?

Thanks in advance, Kraig

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 10:18 AM
 
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Re: Kinda OT Electrical Advice-220V

Don't worry about what they used connecting your meter base to the main service, they pay for that.
From the meter base into the house, use COPPER ONLY.
You pay for any electricity that passes through the meter, and ALUMINUM is a LOUSY conductor.
From the meter to the house, you are paying for the electricity to heat that damned old aluminum wire.

Gold is the best common conductor, followed by silver, but they are too expensive.
Use copper, and the larger the better for large draw circuits.

If you ever have the chance to pick out a breaker box, make sure it has a solid copper buss in it.
Some are tin, some are aluminum, and I have never seen one live very long compared to solid copper.
(Buss it the main power strip in the back of the breaker box that all the breakers connect to.)

Square 'D' and Hubbell are both made right here in the US of the best materials.
Hubbell mostly makes switches and connectors, and some wire.
Square 'D' makes EVERYTHING to do with AC electrical.
Both have several grades, but get the 'Industrial' grade if you can.

Don't forget the 'Oxidation Guard Grease' when you are connecting copper to any other material, steel, aluminum or what ever.
Oxy-Guard keeps the two dissimilar metals from corroding at the contact point.

Something I forgot...
FOR GOD SAKES, run your ground wire to an earth ground rod with a 6 Ga. solid wire from any breaker box.
Code says a 8 foot rod, I usually use two 12 foot rods, one for the house, and the other for sensitive electrical equipment, like computers, TV's ect...

I never use the bonding screw that connects the ground and neutral wires.
That is a practice left over from the 1920's and should be stopped!
Ground should go to a real working earth ground, and neutral should be just that, a neutral wire...
That would stop tons of voltage spikes, and near lightning strikes from killing electrical components,
PLUS make your house much safer.

I'm getting off my soap box now....

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 11:53 AM
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Re: Kinda OT Electrical Advice-220V

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] OK....here is the scoop on aluminum from someone who peers at it every day through a Pyroelectric Vidacon Television camera (infrared) If you use aluminum, you must use wire that is SO BIG that it never even THINKS about getting hot from current. That way you don't have the shrink-swell-shrink-swell effect that is so good at loosening up the connections. THEN you use connections that are marked "Al" so you know they are compatible, and THEN you do as TR says and use gobs of "No-Ox" grease on the terminals to prevent corrosion and oxidation. Do that and you'll be fine.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 12:11 PM
 
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Re: Kinda OT Electrical Advice-220V

I just use copper.
I hate paying for the electricity it takes to heat those wires up...
It's exponential too, the hotter they get, the more resistance they have, and the more electricity they 'absorb'...
It's a viscous cycle...

Aluminum expands and contracts at roughly 3 times the rate of steel, so if you have steel connections, the aluminum wire is moving around up to three times the rate the connectors are.
Remember, the connectors are cooler than the aluminum wire, because steel conducts better than aluminum...
So it's even worse than you first thought...

Copper, on the other hand, barely expands or contracts at all, no matter how hot it gets, and normal current won't heat it up anywhere near enough to worry about....

AND copper conducts well enough you aren't paying the electric company for heating your wiring...
Some estimates are that as much as 15% of you electric bill is for overcoming bad connections and bad wiring, improper grounds ect...

I'm anal retentive about my wiring, but I've got better things to do with that money than give it away with no benefit to me at all, plus it's that much harder on the environment to produce that electricity in the first place...

In a business, that is 15% right off the top that could be sheer profits.
More money in your pocket, and more assets for the company to use as leverage...
What do you think that will do for the P:E ratio?!!

At home, that's 15% that could go for new Jeep parts!!
Figure out what you spend on electricity in a year, and you will be amazed how much 15% is!!!
And how may cool Jeep toys it will buy!!

CJ Dave makes a good living finding the losses, and advising how to correct them, so there is some interest, but not enough...

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 12:41 PM
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Re: Kinda OT Electrical Advice-220V

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] There is so much electricity wasted that it is almost unbelievable. If you want to train people to conserve power, let them live with a small generator for a while. Like you can't iron clothes and watch TV at the same time; and you can't start the washing machine till the water pump is done filling the overhead tank. They catch on fast. It's like "living aboard" with a limited fresh water supply on a boat. As far as aluminum goes, it conducts OK......behind silver, gopper, and gold....but the BIG PROBLEM is the connections. The power companies install lots of Al, but they have the super-hydraulic cripmer which uses the lug-sockets which have a "pill" already inside which the crimper squishes and the No-Ox fills the entire socket and then when the crimp is finished it is a totally airless, spaceless connection. PLUS......most of their stuff is outdoors, and cools off better. I have seen aluminum wire get SO HOT that the insulation gassed off and the gas combined with condensation on the inside of the enclosures to form a corosive, red gunk that totally destroyed the equipment.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif[/img] You can use Al, but it needs to be two to four wire sizes bigger, and then you need bigger raceways and fittings, which cost more and take more time to install, so why go Al in the first place...UNLESS it is a LONG run with only a single termination, and no complicated fittings.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 08-27-2000, 09:42 AM
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Re: Kinda OT Electrical Advice-220V

Thanks for your input, I got the 220 outlet wired in. I built the garage 5 years ago and did the electical myself. When I did, I used a Siemens box (cheap) so now I have to go with the siemens breaker etc, (My house has the Square D breaker box) but the breakers are not compatible. I did have the oxy compound from my previous wiring so I did get that on the connections. The only coper wire I could get that was large enough was stranded not solid.

Now its time to spruce up my bead....I havent welded since I left the farm in 86' but Itll come back quick. And get to welding on some of these jeep projects (tow bar, storage racks amd bumpers.

Thanks guys!!

Everyday travel is off-roading in this town....
post #10 of (permalink) Old 08-27-2000, 04:21 PM
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Re: Kinda OT Electrical Advice-220V

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Stranded wire carries more current than the same weight soild wire.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

CJDave
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