Gusset question again...Attn:TR - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups
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post #1 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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Gusset question again...Attn:TR

While thinking about gussets some more, I had a concern. TR said that flat plate steel gussets are better(stonger) than tubing, if I understood correctly.
Let me start by saying I am not intending to argue, just bringing up some questions I have.
While flate plate steel gussets would be stronger, don't they create in increased risk of serious head injury since a blow to the head would be concentrated on one "sharp" area as apposed to the larger area of a tube shape?
(i got this thought from the discussion of square tubing rollcages)
Also, is there a risk that the flate plate will "punch" through the rollcage tubing for the same "sharp" reason? While tbing has more contact area to spread the force out?
It seams that when building a roll over protection system (ROPS,thanks CJDave!) there are many trade offs to consider, saftey versus cargo space, danger of hitting your head on rocks versus the open air clausterphobic (however you spell that) feeling, danger of collapse versus hitting your head on a sharp gusset, etc etc.
Lots to think about...
Thanks,

Dan 84 CJ-7,Weber,HEI. 95 ZJ,V8. http://netnow.micron.net/~wdohrn/
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 05:38 PM
 
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Re: Gusset question again...Attn:TR

DISCLAIMER:
I'M NOT TRYING TO BE A SMART ASS, or insult the guy.
This is mostly for the benefit of the guys that don't wear belts....


WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR HEAD DOING UP THERE???
Shouldn't you be belted in? And if you are properly belted, your pumpkin' shouldn't be able to reach the bars, much less the gussets.

To minimize the chance of getting into the gussets, they should be have a radius between the 'tails'.
See diagram attached.
With the curve cut at the proper angle, you loose next to nothing for strength, and the radius is short enough your noodle should contact the bars before the gusset.
Besides, gussets can be rounded and padded just like any piece on the cage.

Gussets don't have to be huge, because they work by supporting length wise the bar (axially), and supports all the way to the joint, and the joint it's self.
Gussets don't tear out any easier than pipe would, but they allow natural flex of the cage without applying the bend and twist stress to just one point on the bar, like a support bar would.

If this doesn't answer your questions, try it again.
I'm not wired like 'Normal' people, so I'm not always sure what people are trying to say.
Sorry....

I get along much better with gears and wires than I do people most of the time...

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 05:42 PM
 
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Re: Gusset question again...Attn:TR

So much for my memory...
Here is the attachment....

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Gusset question again...Attn:TR

Thanks...
I didn't think about the fact that your head would never get close enough to the gussets...duh. I guess you'd have to be pretty damned tall to come in contact with most of the areas that the gussets would be.
ok...on to the next topic.
Thanks again.


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post #5 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 11:39 AM
 
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Re: Gusset question again...Attn:TR

You have to climb up, and then out of a sprint car because of the way the seat is made to support you in high 'G' turns...
And I learned pretty quick to leave the helmet ON until I cleared the cage...
Got lots of Knots on my Knot head taking the helmet off first, then trying to get out...

If you are going to do anything other than trail riding, I suggest the proper seat, safety harness, and a helmet, even if it's one of those little turtle shell types that don't cover your ears....
Even a bicycle helmet would help, and they are so light and open you won't even know they are on you noggin!

You only get one 'punkin', protect it!!
I don't care how I look, I'm going home at the end of the day!!!
...And those little nose pickin' off-roaders are watching....
And if the guys with the best jeeps do it, (that would be guys that hang out here!) then it will become a fashion statement.

You spend all that money on skid plates, how about skid protection for your noodle!!


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post #6 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 02:25 PM
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Re: Gusset question again...Attn:TR

Do you attach the gusset in the middle of the tubes or on top of the tubes. Seems that if they were in the middle of the tubes they would slice through the tubes on impact. See attachment if your not sure what I mean for top vs middle. Thanks

Bakes
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 03:11 PM
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Re: Gusset question again...Attn:TR

Top of tube. John

post #8 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 05:26 PM
 
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Re: Gusset question again...Attn:TR


If I am double gusseting something for reinforcement, I do the top and bottom.
When we do doubles, we box in the open part between them for the added reinforcement.


If it is just a single gusset, I do it in the middle.
I've seen tubing smashed flat, and some of the gusset welds torn loose, but I have never seen a gusset slice through a bar, and I have never seen a gusseted joint fail.
I've seen the pipes fail, and some welds fail, but never a gusset.

For singles, I really think you loose some strength if you go on top.
You are sheering against the weld and trying to pull the pipe open.
Any reinforcement in the centerline of the joint is best, so on top would be too far up I would think....

Right in the middle on a single seems to have less damage to the pipe, and holds better if it's axial to the pipe.

Some people slot the pipe, and weld inside, then top an bottom outside.
I think that is overkill.
All I do is weld about an inch, then space an inch, then weld an inch....
On the bottom side I'll weld 1/2" then do what ever is reverse of the top side, except weld tight in the corner on top and bottom.

I think the alternation is the key.
I don't know the reason for this, but I see it on a lot of top dollar, professional build race cars, like NASCAR.
I've seen solid welding on top and bottom of a single gusset do just as well as an alternated weld, so I can't make a judgment call on that one.

Gussets are a low cost, high yield way to add strength and durability to any project, not just roll cages.
Anytime you need a support, don't guess, gusset!!
(OK, I know that was bad, I can smell it from here[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif[/img])

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 05:37 PM
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Re: Gusset question again...Attn:TR

"Gussets don't have to be huge"

I admittedly don't know much about roll bar design, but for my sake and maybe others - is there an optimal size? I see where you suggest gusset width to match tude wall thickness, but does tube diamater, length of tube "run" or any other factor determine the optimal gusset size?

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post #10 of (permalink) Old 08-26-2000, 06:09 PM
 
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Re: Gusset question again...Attn:TR

I've never done any testing, but I've always been given these guide lines...

1. 1 to 1-1/2 times the thickness of the tubing.
If you are using 0.120" wall tubing, then the gusset should be 0.120" to 0.180".

2. Twice the tube diameter up to 2.5".
If the tube is 2.0" in diameter, then the gusset should go 4" from the inside of the corner.

3. Never radius less than the tube diameter.
If you are using 2.0" tubing, you come no closer with your radius than 2" to the corner at the low spot of the radius.

4. Never remove any more material from the gusset than you want to bet your life on.
We drill holes, or machine slots in the gussets for appearance sake, and to light the weight, and they say you shouldn't remove more than you want to bet your life on.


These guide lines are for building chassis though, and the rules may be different for building safety cages.
I go by these guide lines when I'm building anything, and they haven't let me down yet...
(that's obvious, I'm still here blabbering....)

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