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post #1 of (permalink) Old 08-24-2000, 11:05 PM
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Jacobs vs. MSD Ignitions

<font color=blue>Is one significantly better than the other? or is it a personal preference?

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 08-24-2000, 11:21 PM
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Re: Jacobs vs. MSD Ignitions

personal preference. jacobs is good until it dies. msd stands behind their products. much better customer service. do a search for jacobs, there have been a few discussions before.

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 12:38 AM
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Re: Jacobs vs. MSD Ignitions

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] YJ....we researched the heck out of this last year, and what we decided to do was use the MSD 6A coupled to a Jeep distributor with the TR TFI style upgrade on it. The spark duration of the MSD was the deciding factor. In addition to that setup, TR specially designed and built a DOUBLE Hall Effect pickup mechanism for the distributor, giving us two completely redundant ignition systems, selectable by the flip of a switch. When the Klintunoid/Algore-Renoite-UN goons are after us to grab our guns, we don't want any breakdowns. I've had to walk long distances a few times when I broke an ignition, so the redundant system is a comfort to me.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 01:45 AM
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Re: Jacobs vs. MSD Ignitions

Jacobs does not stand behind their product. MSD has great customer service and a much
more durable and effective product. I have used the same 6A on 2 different vehicles and as soon I figure out the tach hookup on the 4runner, 3.
I bet our local ignition guru can fill in more details.

Gibby

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 03:03 AM
 
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Re: Jacobs vs. MSD Ignitions

I don't have any experience with MSD yet. Thinking about a 6a for my 231. I have a complete mileage master system on my 454. Also have used the omni-pak. Everyone who says Jacob's does not stand behind their products is right. Their customer service sucks. The mileage master has worked flawlessly, but it was installed on a ground-up performance rebuild while swapping out a small block so I didn't have a baseline to gauge added performance.
I had a problem with a wire (that goes from the original coil high voltage lead to ground) going bad on the omni pak and they wouldn't cover it under warrenty, plus they were *******s on the phone. People like that better pray I never win the lottery, or I would have been on a flight to his position that night.
I will say that Jacob's spark plug wires are the best I've ever used, hands down, and I've tried a lot (Taylor, Accel, MSD, store brands, factory MOPAR, factory GM). I want a set for my 231, but despite the fact they are good, I hate to give my money to a company that treats its customers badly.

Greg 89 XJ-stock, 83 CJ-7/4.0HO-t18-d300-locked-2.5" rancho-32 bfg mt, 79 Blazer/454-t400-np205-locked-3/4 ton axles-35 bfg, 67 CJ-5/231-t18-d18-4.88-front disc-rear 11" drum/front locked/30-9.50's
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 08:47 AM
 
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Re: Jacobs vs. MSD Ignitions

What Jacobs ignition are you wanting? I have several in a barrel here that people have just left here.
They have a tendency to throw them out when I bench test them next to an MSD ignition.
---------------------------------

Comparing designs, Jacobs is in the Iron Age compared to MSD that is in the Space age.... (space shuttle space age, not Mars landing space age)
MSD uses proven technology that durable, and time tested.
Jacobs uses mostly designs I'd call 'Vintage'... and 'Questionable' technology...

MSD has better prices on better products.
MSD is in the winners circle in EVERY type of racing, Jacobs is not.
If Jacobs had anything going for it, BELIEVE ME, every NASCAR TEAM/ IHRA/ NHRA/ SCCA ect. ect., teams would be using them.

MSD is on top, and MSD is king for one simple reason, they build an ignition that works exactly as advertised. They even post specs in their catalogs.
I've never once seen an MSD product come in under specifications, and I do a LOT of ignition work...
Sadly, I can't say that for ANY other ignition manufacturer, even the factory units.
--------------------------------

MSD 6 series is the most reasonably priced ignition module. ($130 to $300 depending on model)

It is Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI), meaning it has almost zero coil saturation time.
(coil saturation time, the time it takes the ignition coil to charge for a much 'hotter' spark. VERY important.)

The MSD 6 series modules and up are Multiple Discharge Ignition (MSD), Meaning the plugs fires several times,
DURATION of the spark is much longer. Around 1,000% increase over Inductive ignitions.
(Duration, The time the spark is actually hanging in you combustion chamber to light the fuel mixture. VERY important.)

AMPERAGE is increased with the increased coil saturation.
AMPERAGE is what makes that thick rich blue spark that gets things going.
MSD modules can produce some truly impressive amperage figures.
400% to 1,000% increases in amperage.
---------------------------------

Now, something any normal consumer should concern them selves with...
Jacobs will charge you for just looking at your ignition should anything go wrong.
Jacobs has an 'Integrated' system, meaning they won't warranty it if you don't use everything from them. Coil, wires, everything.

MSD will show the gains mentioned with STOCK PARTS... The module is all you buy!!
They have FREE customer service!
They have FREE tech lines!
They have GREAT instructions that are FREE!
I only know two people that paid for any kind of repairs in over 20 years of using MSD.
(Both of them were a pain in the butt! Kept hooking up things backwards and burning up boxes)
I send in 10 and 15 year old modules all the time, updated to modern designs, thoroughly checked, burned in, and sent back, free of charge.
I have never once been charged anything but shipping to MSD (by UPS) for any return in over 20 years of doing business with MSD.

MSD 6 modules are also 50 state emissions legal! Try that with most other ignitions!

Lets recap...
MSD...
Works with stock parts, on stock automobiles...
Adaptors made so you don't have to butcher your stock wiring harness.
Improves milage and performance.
Improves cold start and idle.
Very reasonable pricing.
Great customer service.
Free tech line.
Free catalog. ( http://www.msdignition.com )
Free wiring diagrams.
HUGE support equipment if you decide to upgrade later.
Dominates the winners circle in every type of racing.
50 state emissions legal.
Easy install.
Very reliable, over 30 years on the market.
If it fails, free repair with free upgrade to the latest parts.
Less than two week turnaround on the repair modules, (Most of that UPS time)

Jacobs....
I'm not going to beat on them. Employees at Jacobs have to eat too.

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 02:30 PM
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Re: Jacobs vs. MSD Ignitions

very well spoken TR! in fact i've convinced my-self to get an MSD.ANY pointers?Im in the middle of my not-so-painless wiring,and i havent gotten to the engine harness yet so this would be a good time to upgrade to MSD i guess.

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 05:10 PM
 
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Re: Jacobs vs. MSD Ignitions

Use the standard MSD 6A module (around $130) for all but all out racing or mud bogging or river fording applications.
Your stock distributor is good up to sustained 5,000 RPM operation before it starts to suffer.

Mount the module some where it can get ventilation, and raise it up so air can get under it.
Keep the header heat away from it, either by location, or with a heat shield.
Don't scrimp on the wiring, run the MSD power leads straight to the battery.
NEVER BODY OR FRAME GROUND THE MODULE GROUND WIRE!!
IT HAS TO GO BACK TO THE PRIMARY GROUND OR BATTERY ONLY.

It's as durable as the DuraSpark module, except most of the MSD modules ARE NOT water sealed.
There is a 6 series Marine and 6 Series Off-Road modules that ARE water tight, but they are $300 and $250 respectively.
If you are going to splash them, no problem.
If you are going to submerse them, get the sealed unit.

Keep your motorcraft distributor.
It works better with the MSD unit, and it works better than the GM HEI under any circumstances.
You can walk into Advanced Auto parts stores, get a re-man distributor for $45 that has new drive gear, new vacuum advance, new pickup coil and plate, and new springs.
I can't buy the spare parts for that, and then I still have cleaning, inspection, clear coating the housing, and assembly to do.

You may want to change advance springs, but that's entirely up to you.
You will notice it pulls a lot harder off the line if you change springs lighter, but that could work against you if you were trying to take off easy on ice, sand or mud.

The premium E-core (TFI) style ignition coil from Ford and aftermarket sources kicks butt!
It works great with any MSD street ignition, and kicks the GM HEI all to hell and back.
At about $15 for the economy, and $45 for MSD or any of the premium aftermarket flavors, It's reasonably priced.

Upgrade to the large cap and tall rotor with the good plug wires.
This can be done at any tune up, so the cost can be kept reasonable.
Anywhere from $10 to $150 depending on how good of parts you use, and where you get them from...
Always use good plug wires and good distributor cap with BRASS terminals, otherwise, you are wasting time and money.

Can anyone think of anything else?

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 08:03 PM
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Re: Jacobs vs. MSD Ignitions

<font color=blue>Thanks TR.... Good thing I didn't buy that Jacobs! (Are you being paid to say this!)

Ummm... the MSD 6a I saw was over 200... it had some additional letters after the a though...

thanks again!

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post #10 of (permalink) Old 08-25-2000, 08:22 PM
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Re: Jacobs vs. MSD Ignitions

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] The regular 6A is 130 dollars plus or minus a frackle. If it has more letters it could be the waterproof version.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

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