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post #1 of (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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How hot should a 304 run and 195* factory thermostat?

I've started driving my jeep a lot now that I'm pretty much done with my trans swap and it's getting a little hot at times.

For those that don't know it's a '74 CJ5, stock 304, stock looking radiator with a made in 1995 sticker, no fan shroud, clutch fan, new 16 pound rad cap to replace the 13 pound that was on there. I live at 6,500' and get up into the 9,500'+ quite often.

How hot should it run? I usually run in the 180-190* range around town/ on the trail/ at idle (though I don't usually leave it running). Driving 65 to 70mph on the flats or getting on it going up passes in 90* weather it will climb up to 225*. On a 2 track climbing up to 9,500' in 2nd gear it will also creep up to 225*. The parts store and quadratec both say it should have a 195* thermostat in it, is that right? How hot is too hot? I know the newer FI jeeps run at 210* but how hot should a CJ with a carbed V8 run?

I bought a 160* t-stat today and ordered now rad hoses to replace the dry rotted stockers and will pick up belts when the hoses come in. My belts are tired/ one is too wide. I'm going to whip out a fan shroud on the plasma table in the next couple days.

Am I on the right track to getting temps in check? I know the lack of a fan shroud and worn out loose belts are things I should get taken care of before I even start worrying.
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelroll View Post
I've started driving my jeep a lot now that I'm pretty much done with my trans swap and it's getting a little hot at times.

For those that don't know it's a '74 CJ5, stock 304, stock looking radiator with a made in 1995 sticker, no fan shroud, clutch fan, new 16 pound rad cap to replace the 13 pound that was on there. I live at 6,500' and get up into the 9,500'+ quite often.

How hot should it run? I usually run in the 180-190* range around town/ on the trail/ at idle (though I don't usually leave it running). Driving 65 to 70mph on the flats or getting on it going up passes in 90* weather it will climb up to 225*. On a 2 track climbing up to 9,500' in 2nd gear it will also creep up to 225*. The parts store and quadratec both say it should have a 195* thermostat in it, is that right? How hot is too hot? I know the newer FI jeeps run at 210* but how hot should a CJ with a carbed V8 run?

I bought a 160* t-stat today and ordered now rad hoses to replace the dry rotted stockers and will pick up belts when the hoses come in. My belts are tired/ one is too wide. I'm going to whip out a fan shroud on the plasma table in the next couple days.

Am I on the right track to getting temps in check? I know the lack of a fan shroud and worn out loose belts are things I should get taken care of before I even start worrying.

Leave the stock temp thermostat in and build a shroud. I'd shut it off at or over 225. What is the oil pressure at hot idle?

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 09:29 PM
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The 160f stat will not increase your total capacity. It will just give someone like a street racer a few more seconds @ WOT before he has to get out of it and shut down. 195F is what you should have and if your rad is of enough capacity ..195F is what you should maintain. I guess it depends on where you read it.

I wonder if the fuel mix is causing it at altitude. The wonders of injection have spoiled me.

Some of your problem will go away with getting the shroud installed.

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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When I took my foot out of the gas it would drop down from 225 to 210 and then 180-190 in less than a minuet.

Oil pressure at idle isn't the greatest, usually in in the 10-20 psi range, no clue how old the oil is, I'm sure it could use a change.

I'll try the shroud, I think that's tomorows project, I have to "learn" how to use the plasma cam and brake at my new school, hopefully there's some sheet metal lying around. Being a shop teacher can have it's benifits.

Would old dry rotted rad hoses cause any of my problems?

I'm also wondering about the belts, they are pretty loose and 1 is too wide.

As far as mixture goes it's still set for sea level.

Timing I ended up turing the dizzy a little counter clockwise. I set the timing using a glass of water on the manifold, turned the dizzy till the waves disapeared in the water and nice uniform ripples appeared. I'm not sure if it's "acceptable" but it's an older farmer trick. It still has the stock points as well.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
When I took my foot out of the gas it would drop down from 225 to 210 and then 180-190 in less than a minuet. Still going down the road or stopped?

Oil pressure at idle isn't the greatest, usually in in the 10-20 psi range, no clue how old the oil is, I'm sure it could use a change. That oil pressure is great for a 304 at hot idle.

I'll try the shroud, I think that's tomorows project, I have to "learn" how to use the plasma cam and brake at my new school, hopefully there's some sheet metal lying around. Being a shop teacher can have it's benifits.

Would old dry rotted rad hoses cause any of my problems? Not unless they are clogged.

I'm also wondering about the belts, they are pretty loose and 1 is too wide.

As far as mixture goes it's still set for sea level.

Timing I ended up turing the dizzy a little counter clockwise. I set the timing using a glass of water on the manifold, turned the dizzy till the waves disapeared in the water and nice uniform ripples appeared. I'm not sure if it's "acceptable" but it's an older farmer trick. It still has the stock points as well.

Replace your hoses because they are old and dry rotted.
Replace your belts because they are loose and the wrong size.
Get rid of the points so that you can install EFI... and because it's 2010...
Swap on some junk yard GM EFI. Your just cheating yourself every day that goes by that it's not done.


Build a shroud and use the 195 thermostat to keep your engine cool. I'm wondering about your water pump

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 07:27 AM
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if it runs hot with a 195, itll run hot with a 160....the problem is your systems not shedding enough BTUs...if the shroud doesn't cure your ill, check the flow through the radiator tubes

'74 CJ5232 ci,Dana 30 & 44,basically a stock rig with fiber body
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 10:58 AM
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I was experiencing some of the same problems with my 2.5 litre, so I replaced two stant stats, both were new 195 degree, no improvement, next I replaced the radiator cause it was reallll funky, noooo improvement, I also had to replace the heater core cause it was starting to leak. I had an idea, I bought two Flo-kooler stats years ago, used one in my 1990 YJ w/5.0 litre and crossflow radiator, works great, sooooo I went to my parts guy and asked him to run the numbers crossover for a Ford 5.0 and a Jeep 2.5 to see if they were the same size and he said yes, soooo I put the 195 degree Flo-Kooler stat that I had left in the 2.5. She runs sooooo cool now I get codes now and again telling me the Jeep is running toooo cool. Just my experience.

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 07-29-2010, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeAea View Post
Some of your problem will go away with getting the shroud installed.
Ditto!

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelroll View Post
Timing I ended up turing the dizzy a little counter clockwise. I set the timing using a glass of water on the manifold, turned the dizzy till the waves disapeared in the water and nice uniform ripples appeared. I'm not sure if it's "acceptable" but it's an older farmer trick. It still has the stock points as well.
Maybe you should try a timing light (since the school *should* have one of those also) and skip the Wild @$$ Guessing method... ripples in the water mean nothing other reduced vibration and likely only got you +/- 15*

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Originally Posted by Booger View Post
so I replaced two stant stats
I've heard of Stant caps/stats being attributed to more than a few overheating scenarios too. Spend the extra $1.50 and buy a different brand!

Caver Dave
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Last edited by Caver Dave; 07-29-2010 at 10:38 AM.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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I've dropped 5* or so as of now but it also wasn't 90* out. Going up the passes it would hit 218 or so, it wouldn't break 220*, as soon as you got to the top and let off the gas it would drop to 210 in about 20 seconds and then slowly drop to 180-195* range.

I made a fan shroud, it covers 2/3 of the fan blades depth wise, it does have about a 1/2" gap at the top and bottom horozontally, I'm wondering if I fill that if I can get a couple more degrees. I also put the right tight belts on, fresh antifreeze at a 50/50 mix and new radiator hoses. I didn't touch the thermostat.

Besides filling the gaps in the fan shroud where should I go next?

It does not have a coolant overflow bottle, just about 4' of hose.

Would an exhaust leak cause an overheating problem?

Swap in my HEI dizzy instead of the points and get the timing set spot on? I don't think I have a timing light at school, we don't have an autos program as of now but I'm sure I can find some one to borrow one from.

Direct drive instead of clutch fan? Anyone have the right "adapter" for an AMC v8?

I have a 16" pusher that's too big to fit my jeep, should I put it in front of the rad to see if it makes a difference and if it does order one that fits.

Louvers?

Oil cooler/ oil cooler with fan?

Bigger/ thicker/ bling bling radiator?
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelroll View Post
I've dropped 5* or so as of now but it also wasn't 90* out. Going up the passes it would hit 218 or so, it wouldn't break 220*, as soon as you got to the top and let off the gas it would drop to 210 in about 20 seconds and then slowly drop to 180-195* range.

I made a fan shroud, it covers 2/3 of the fan blades depth wise, it does have about a 1/2" gap at the top and bottom horozontally, I'm wondering if I fill that if I can get a couple more degrees. I also put the right tight belts on, fresh antifreeze at a 50/50 mix and new radiator hoses. I didn't touch the thermostat.

Besides filling the gaps in the fan shroud where should I go next?

It does not have a coolant overflow bottle, just about 4' of hose.

Would an exhaust leak cause an overheating problem?

Swap in my HEI dizzy instead of the points and get the timing set spot on? I don't think I have a timing light at school, we don't have an autos program as of now but I'm sure I can find some one to borrow one from.

Direct drive instead of clutch fan? Anyone have the right "adapter" for an AMC v8?

I have a 16" pusher that's too big to fit my jeep, should I put it in front of the rad to see if it makes a difference and if it does order one that fits.

Louvers?

Oil cooler/ oil cooler with fan?

Bigger/ thicker/ bling bling radiator?
Read all of this twice.....

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