O/T - How shops get a bad reputation - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups
Jeep-Short Wheelbase All discussion of short wheelbase Jeeps: CJ, TJ, YJ and JK

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
Way Outta Control
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: usa
Posts: 10,815
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
O/T - How shops get a bad reputation

A friend took his Lexus View to a local repair shop. The complaint was his wife was driving it when it started a "squeeling" noise. She turned off the air conditioner and it stopped.
When she got home he turned the AC back on, no noise, blew cold air fine.

Stop ---
(What do you think was the cause?)

He told the shop's manager, manager drove it around back but wouldn't let Ron go with it. A few minutes later the manager drove it back out front, He told Ron the AC had "internally exploded." The entire system had to be replaced!
He wanted $800 deposit and said the entire thing would run $1800 or more!

Ron gave him the $800, then drove it home. It would take a few days for all the parts to arrive. On the way home it worked just like normal, cold air, no squeel.

I looked at it - the idler pulley was wobbling slightly. 110,000 miles on it.

Exploded Internally? Everthing had to be replaced?

Crooks!
RRich is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 12:42 AM
Keyboard Implanted
 
thorjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: In the process of finding it
Posts: 2,561
Thanks: 10
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Buy that manager a cup of coffee, with two lumps of ex-lax, let him know what exploding internally really means

BTW: Just kidding, you could be looking at some jail time if you really did..

Sadly with the closing of auto shops in HS all over the place, the sheeple will be at the mercy of the wolves.

Scott
1985 CJ7 T.H.O.R

"He brought me up out of the pit of destruction, out of the miry clay, And He set my feet upon a rock making my footsteps firm."
-Psalm 40:2
thorjeep is offline  
post #3 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 10:20 AM
Just Plain Need A Life
 
writeforus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 27,817
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
           
A "deposit" for shop work? Warning warning! Red flag all over the place..



writeforus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 11:26 AM
Veteran
 
TeamRush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: So.West Indiana
Posts: 826
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRich View Post
A friend took his Lexus View to a local repair shop. The complaint was his wife was driving it when it started a "squeeling" noise. She turned off the air conditioner and it stopped.
When she got home he turned the AC back on, no noise, blew cold air fine.

Stop ---
(What do you think was the cause?)

He told the shop's manager, manager drove it around back but wouldn't let Ron go with it. A few minutes later the manager drove it back out front, He told Ron the AC had "internally exploded." The entire system had to be replaced!
He wanted $800 deposit and said the entire thing would run $1800 or more!

Ron gave him the $800, then drove it home. It would take a few days for all the parts to arrive. On the way home it worked just like normal, cold air, no squeel.

I looked at it - the idler pulley was wobbling slightly. 110,000 miles on it.

Exploded Internally? Everthing had to be replaced?

Crooks!
Not necessarily 'Crooks',
But they are certainly 'ASE' mechanics...
ASE guys are 'Parts Changers' by definition, they are NOT required to learn how the engine and it's sub/support systems actually work,
They are required to know some minimal diagnostic information, but very little of that.

'ASE' or 'Automotive Service Excellence' rated (ASE doesn't 'Train' Techs, they 'Test' them and give them ratings based on written tests.
No actual 'Hands On' experience necessary.

Anyway, since they are 'Parts Changers', what they do is throw parts at a problem until the 'Problem' goes away...

If there is something 'Wrong' with the 'A/C System', then you change parts in that A/C system until the 'Issue' goes away...

And since they aren't likely to be correct much of the time,
They overcharge DRAMATICALLY to compensate for the eventual, and actually inevitable, comebacks that WILL happen.
------------------

This is where an OBSERVANT 'Mechanic' that understands the systems will excell.

Now, to answer the question,

In regard to 'Idler' or 'Tensioner' pulleys,
When the A/C Compressor is turned on, it's about a 6 to 15 Horsepower draw on the engine,
All of which loads the 'Idler' & 'Tensioner' pulleys.

Idler & Tensioner pulleys have VERY SMALL, sealed bearings for the amount of load they have to deal with, and often give up...
When someone says they hear a 'Squealing' or 'Grinding' from under the hood,

The FIRST thing I check for is Flat belts or 'V' belts,
And if it's flat belts, And about all are these days,
I check the Idler & Tensioner pulley bearings.

Since a locked up power steering pump, emissions pump, water pump or alternator wouldn't have 'STOPPED' when you turned off the A/C, that rules them out immediately.

The fact that the problem was 'Intermittent' pretty much rules out the A/C Compressor...
From personal experience, I can tell you that when an A/C Compressor locks up, it's almost ALWAYS locked up FOR GOOD!
Locked compressors RARELY start turning again once they lock up the first time!

And the only other ROTATING parts that come into contact with the belts are the Tensioner and/or Idler pulleys.
(Which are about $35 when you have to replace them.)
-----------------------------------

THIS IS A VERY GOOD CASE OF HEARING 'HOOF BEATS', and thinking "ZEBRAS!",
Instead of the more obvious, 'The neighbors horses'...


-----------------------------------

$1,800 would have been high for a locked compressor, even on a Lexus...

Locked compressor means a real threat of particles in the system,

SO!
1. Replacment Compressor w/Clutch.
(only an IDIOT changes the compressor and puts a used clutch back on, ESPECIALLY if the compressor locked up!)
I get high quality, UPDATED Remans with clutches for about $180
Or I can usually get a factory replacment for about that also...
I prefer the updated compressors with all the 'Good Stuff' inside...

2. Filter/Receiver/Dryer.
Something you should change anytime the system is opened anyway.

3. Replace Orifice.
Any debris in the Orifice will make for a Comeback/Return/Warranty repair.
Since the system is open, it's no big deal anyway...

4. Flush Condenser, lines, heat exchanger.
Can't take the chance of leaving something in there that will block the new orifice or make it's way into the new compressor!

5. Flush with inert gas, Vacuum down, and Refill with coolant/lubricant.

This job may reach $800 by the time you are done, but it's by no means an $1,800 job!

Last edited by TeamRush; 05-18-2009 at 11:29 AM.
TeamRush is offline  
post #5 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 02:58 PM
Sawzall Poster Boy
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ft. Wayne, IN
Posts: 626
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
These things crack me up. One of the things I try and teach to my high school students is trouble shooting. They are definetly part of the instant gratification/ character died game over restart generation. I'm sure shops are seeing some of these fine young people showing up at their doors. If it's work and they don't get paid/ it isn't easy they want no part of it. They don't like to "learn" how something works in the class room but would love to spend hours in the shop goofing around attempting to "fix it" with sub par workman ship.

There are some kids out there that will be a credit to the trades and I do my best to instill some work ethic and problem sloving skills in all students.
barrelroll is offline  
post #6 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 04:41 PM
Keyboard Implanted
 
thorjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: In the process of finding it
Posts: 2,561
Thanks: 10
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
It's the "problem sloving" skills I am worried about

Scott
1985 CJ7 T.H.O.R

"He brought me up out of the pit of destruction, out of the miry clay, And He set my feet upon a rock making my footsteps firm."
-Psalm 40:2
thorjeep is offline  
post #7 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 06:38 PM
Veteran
 
TeamRush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: So.West Indiana
Posts: 826
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thorjeep View Post
It's the "problem sloving" skills I am worried about
What 'Problem Solving Skills' would you be talking about?
I don't see any...
No problem solving skills, no common sense, no respect for themselves or others, no manners...

And I have to agree with the MENSA studies, 'Average IQ' in America is going down at an ALARMING RATE!
TeamRush is offline  
post #8 of (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
Way Outta Control
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: usa
Posts: 10,815
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Those guys in that shop have been "wrenching" all their lives. They know better.

They knew Ron doesn't know anything about vehicles. He and his wife have been going to them for years, they've probably done a good job of proving they are "pigeons."

It's clearly a case of attempted screwing, not misdiagnosis.


Problem solving was done, with logic too -- the bank account needed another $1800.
RRich is offline  
post #9 of (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 10:36 AM
Keyboard Implanted
 
mbalbritton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 3,833
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
no where near as bad a raping, I was getting ready to leave on a road trip, and heard a squeeling from my ZJ. No real time or tools with me (starting from a point other than home) I ran into the local Goodyear service center that my Aunt recommended.

I figured it was either Compressor bearings (AC hadn't worked in months anyway) or Idler.

They diagnosed it as Idler, fair enough. and recomended a new belt as well. RToad trip , just me and my 4 y/o girl, ya, go ahead and replace the belt, and do both pulleys while you're at it. and throw the old belt in the back seat for me.

Got the quote while I was waiting... HOLD ON!!! I know for a fact the Idlers are $25 a pop. I've bought and replaced them on other Jeeps before. They were charging $50 each. I told the manager, " I don't mind you guys marking up the parts price a little, but 100% mark up? c'mon!! He just said, ok, and gave them to me at his cost.

Lesson: Pay attention folks!

The belief in a supernatural source of evil is not necessary; men alone are quite capable of every wickedness. - Joseph Conrad
mbalbritton is offline  
post #10 of (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 10:57 AM
Just Plain Need A Life
 
writeforus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 27,817
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
           
I will only add this - just because it seems the price is higher than what you paid to buy the part and do it yourself previously, doesn't necessarily mean a raping is underway.

If you've ever been on the other side of the counter, you'd understand.

We're currently undertaking our first experience with retail automotive business, and believe me, it can take 100% mark-up just to cover the overhead. If you don't have a tech immed meet the customer, then your customer service sucks. So you are often paying guys to stand around waiting for the next car to drive up. Want new equipment so you can perform a wider variety of quality work faster? Bucks. Want to have enough inventory of parts on hand to immed deal with the most common jobs? Bucks. Want to make your customers comfortable in the lobby? Bucks. Want to make your employees comfortable, clean and presentable? Bucks. Never mind actually taking a paycheck home yourself! (Haven't seen the luxury of that yet...)

So price isn't necessarily my first indicator for shady dealings anymore - no way a full-service shop can compare to Schucks, PartsZone, Walmart or Costco. But I think RRich's example of $800 vs $1,800, diagnosed while hidden behind the shop, is shady.

We have definitely heard some horror stories though from mechanics that pass through our shop, about other places they've worked. How do some people sleep at night?



writeforus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome