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post #1 of (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 05:41 AM Thread Starter
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Intro/Long Post Warning/Request for help/eval/advice

Jim_Lou (Thanks for making mathematically perfect frame inserts: Yes I did buy a jeep part!) tipped me off to this site, but I been searching forums for the last few years, coming across offroad.com now and again.

Thanks for all of u!

I have not contributed, yet I asked for your contribution (IDEAS / EXP):

As you may infer, I have a 1985 CJ7 in pieces.

Not sure where to put the Jeep history / story. Pretty green to off-road.com, so let me know where to move it or feel free to delete. I try to get pics up tomorrow night or this week. VERY MILD BUILD.

Some Jeep History:
I bought the Jeep about 10 years ago, while in college at the University of Minneasota, it was in pretty good shape for a stock CJ7, but after dropping a valve on a major highway (35W) I had a "jeep mechanic" rebuild the engine. I had yet to perform this level of repair, was without tools, and/or time. Also new nothing of Jeep or the 4.2l. This Jeep Mechanic was in northern MN charging $16/ hr, should of knew, but money was non-existant. Well got the jeep back, within a month it had problems (head), returned it to northern MN in late summer (August?). Informed the mechanic that it was leaking coolant as well, so the rad/engine was filled with water (even left the water container on the front frame with a note and phone messages). Then I could not get a hold of the mechanic until end of the semester. He did nothing except let the block crack in the MN / WI winter! Went to court, mechanic claimed no warranty and that I failed to inform of a water filled rad. Provided some logic / fact, won civil?/arbituation?/dispute? court for cost of the rebuild ($1,600). The "Jeep mechanic" appealed to pay nothing. I think court (worthless) was the following summer, I believe en route to the second hearing?, my dad (save gas $) and I stole the jeep back with a dolley. The jeep was gone a about year (?). Engine parts / parts were missing. A year later the mechanic sent the remaining parts / apology / $500 to my dad (who borrowed me the money) The Jeep went to a friend's dad's farm until the fall of 2005. I pick-up the Jeep after moving to the woods in NW WI. The body was shot. I did not start working of the Jeep until: May 2007

After tearing the Jeep down. Nothing significant of the top of my head, but I did rebuild the steering column with locktite on all 4 bolt screws: I may provide a seperate thread after searching to see if this has been cover. The article I found said try to get 2 or 3 of these bolt screws re-tourqued.

FRAME: Spent most of last summer and fall repair (rear / rear crossmember/ body mounts) / modifying the frame. A good friend happens to be a elite welder: THANKS TAFT! I was not going to learn on the frame. The frame is now galvanized and back on stands. I am limited with tools, but a angle grind, vise, and chop saw were utilized. I magic with the angle grinder now! Because of the lack of tools, fabrication is time consuming due desired outcome.

I will to post some pics and attempt to explained what was done. I need to know what I did wrong and what else should be done, now. I know of a couple things I could have done differently, but overall extremely happy with the frame.

The frame was starting to rust after near final welding (was sandblasted), so I decided to get the frame galvanized for before welding in mounts for the Roll cage. At the time I have only my old CJ7 body, which is in rough shape, but has a good firewall plate. On the back from dropping-off the frame to be galvainzed; I called about a tub in MN that I had looked at prior, and my friend Lee and I when to pick it with the empty trailer. So with the seller at MOAB, we proceeded to pick-up a 92 frame/body/windshield frame (w/ glass)/ brake booster / bracket/Grill / bumpers etc as a single unit. I only wanted the body, but an all or none deal: The two of us lifted all onto the trailer in about two hours. It must of way atleast 20 lbs: Sorry to Lee for the broken nut. The owner had a Skidster, about 20 yards away!


I have the factory roll bar with newly fabbed front mounting plates waiting and the old plates cut-off. I need a roll cage. I have the 85 tub with a good firewall plate. The YJ tub has signicant rust through the driver floor and side below "JEEP." Classic Enterprises (NOS Jeep body panels) is 45 miles North.

This is a request for Help / Evaluation / Advice. Not for me (I pretty [email protected]#[email protected]%), but the Jeep!


1) What do you think of the frame in its current state? What else is needed? (I have hundreds of hours into it, a few more is just good perservation)
2) Need to make the frame / body / roll cage a single unit. I would like to cage to bolt off, down to the factory rollbar: This is a reason for this. The function of the Jeep has changed.
3) Frame to Rollcage: Have the rear rolllbar strut fabbed (will use muramic acid for galv disolve: Thanks Jim_Lou) for use with the rear factory roll bar plate with round tube and poly bushing: Came a across a picture of a telescoping arm that is supposed to bottoms out upon rollover. Either way the tabs will be welded to the top of the frame, and bolt through the poly bushing enclosed in tube. Solid vs Telescope?
3) I need a front hoop. Undecided, possibly tie in the open U-shaped vertical support with 1/2 cut tube in front of doors? or use a bracket on dash panel? Or single tube?
4) Need help tieing the frame (to body) to front hoop.
5) Need help ideas with reinforcment plates for the tub: Rollcage, body, seat riser, and seat belt mounts. Have the general concept.
6) Going to connect CJ7 Firewall Plate to NOS panels to YJ rear. Piece by peice, should take at least two hours. Could use a weld thru primer and spot weld (Plug weld: MIG) or use reviets with a adhensive / sealant. Jim_Lou, I will checked out the two part adhensive and LEVE I see what 3M has it and/or I do have some POR-Sealant (Not sure about adhesive properties). I can POR-15 (or X) the entire seam the second way. Could also leave POR-15 off where welding (weld-thru Primer only) is needed. IDEAS?


Sorry for length: Please Instruct as needed.

The Jeep was original intended for jumping and high speed off-road. Needs to be a all purpuse Jeep now. I do not think my body (mammal) could handle too much hardcare off-road. (Mild offroad (hard ground)/ heavy water / mud) Tow boat through the Rockies or homemade trailer / camper around Portland area (Thinking of using left over body parts to contrive a trailer / camper: Liveout of Jeep 1/2 year to save money while getting another GED).

Thanks,

Jeff
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 05:38 AM Thread Starter
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Start!

I was stuck on the Jeep, particularly the frame when my good friend Lee moved back from Key West for us to deal with the frame. Lee was invaluable. Neither of our backgrounds are metal work / mechanics. The closest material that either of us are familar with is wood: I yet to rebuild a engine / trans or set-up a R &P. Rookies.

START!

Add pictures?
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
I did rebuild the steering column with locktite on all 4 bolt screws: I may provide a seperate thread after searching to see if this has been cover. The article I found said try to get 2 or 3 of these bolt screws re-tourqued.
Don't know what bolts you're talking about here or what the problem is/was.

Quote:
The YJ tub has signicant rust through the driver floor and side below "JEEP." Classic Enterprises (NOS Jeep body panels) is 45 miles North.
If it's that bad there, it almost surely has similar problems elsewhere. I wouldn't put new panels in before confirming that there is no other rust damage. Otherwise keep looking for a sound tub. But I hate rust!

As for your cage ideas, I don't like the concept. IMO you should decide to either make your cage a frame-mount or a body-mount. You're asking for trouble trying to attach it to both. The body and frame move separately because there are rubber mounts between. If you tie both to the cage something has to give, and it will be the body where it's attached to the cage. It will fatigue crack and break apart.

In most cases I prefer the idea of having the cage tied to the body, because the body can get torn from the frame, particularly with a rusty old Jeep. But how you intend to design the cage has a bearing on how it's attached. If you put up a drawing of your design I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice on it. Yeah, you will.

EVERYTHING's easy for the guy who doesn't have to do it.
B. Dash Fabrication

Last edited by Jim_Lou; 05-18-2009 at 05:59 AM.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 06:28 AM Thread Starter
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Hopefully a few pictures of the rusty frame:

102_0263.jpg

102_0264.jpg

102_0265.jpg

102_0266.jpg

102_0267.jpg
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 06:45 AM Thread Starter
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 10:37 AM
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I think my frame was a little worse than that, but maybe not. Looks like you did a good job of repairing it - cut out the bad in big pieces instead of trying to do a bunch of little spots. Did you butt-weld the patches in?

EVERYTHING's easy for the guy who doesn't have to do it.
B. Dash Fabrication
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 02:37 AM Thread Starter
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Body mts (frame):

I had ordered a set of body mounts from Quadratrac, which were returned. I wanted to keep the original style body mounts. However these body mounts were without the vertical flanges (unlike the originals) and would have been easy to butt-end weld..I compromised and my friend (Taft) sealed around each mount. Should be fine, only because Taft's welding ability connecting the weld from each side (A slight gap between the frame and mount was left for this reason). Instead, Butt-end well everything. One thing I should of down better from the start is Prep: Some welds were performed after sandblasting and others with myself failing to remove 100% paint. Welding & Paint: All in the prep! I made six body mounts and replace a top.

The Front most Passenger side center was unusable due to rust = fabbed top from C-channel that was bent for boxing the front frame, however did not fit: Recylcled. I liked that I could set this piece on the verticals sides while maintaining the original arc of the mount.

102_0332_00.jpg

102_0333.jpg

102_0334_00.jpg

102_0456.jpg

102_0614.jpg
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 02:45 AM Thread Starter
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Attachment 75728

Attachment 75729

The body mount tab overlapping the top of the frame was removed and massaged down enough to be butt-end welded. This process was adopted through out the restore.
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 03:20 AM Thread Starter
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Body mts (frame)

Had to learn how to fab and bend 1/8" mild steel: Time consumption: Vise, Angle Grider, hand file, and torch. The pictures I have are from the pair of mounts I ruin by bending the vertical flanges before the horizontal tappered bends. This mounts were cut-up and use on the rear x-member.

Attachment 75730

Attachment 75731

Attachment 75732

I cut notches to guide my bending and clamped scrap plates to determine how tight each bend would be.

Attachment 75733

Attachment 75734

Attachment 75735

Attachment 75736
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