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-   -   Wiring electric fan for thermostat and dash toggle??? (https://forums.off-road.com/jeep-short-wheelbase/232008-wiring-electric-fan-thermostat-dash-toggle.html)

Jim_Lou 04-28-2009 04:18 PM

Quote:

My apoligize to the moderators for strating a post that caused so much flak.
No apology necessary - that's why we earn the big bux. I would have locked this days ago but wanted you to get the info you needed. It's in there somewhere. :)

And I'd answer your new questions, but would rather observe the match from the sidelines. Contrary to what you may think, those guys all know some :censored:. I think they just like clanging heads together from time to time. :rolleyes:

CJ7Taz 04-28-2009 04:32 PM

I assume your Jeep did not come with an electric fan and the temperature sensor you have is for the gauge. With some electronics, that sensor could be used to turn on the fan but probably wouldn’t be worth the cost.

The problem with the fan is we don’t know what the connections do. One could be the armature and one could be the field but doubtful. I would expect the fan to be series wound, armature in series with the fields. There could be two sets of fields. There could be just a resistor between the different leads to provide the low speed.

Without knowing more about the fan, we don’t know if we can connect both leads at the same time of if we need to only connect one at a time. For automatic operation, that would require that the relay that energizes the high speed to de-energize the low speed and vice versa.

Do you know what year Grand Cherokee the fan came from? Do you have the pigtail (plug with some leads on it). I did a search on Grand Cherokee fan and found one with 3 wires that was controlled by the ECU. I could read that the black was ground but it was just a small, almost thumbnail size, picture and when I clicked on it, I got “File not found”.

Personally, I wouldn’t touch the Summit kit without knowing what parts it uses. We can use parts you can readily get replacements for at about any auto supply or salvage yard.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Warthog (Post 1544466)
Thanks....and hopefully this doesn't start another slaggin war :D

At least it’s kept your thread near the top where you can find it easily.

Warthog 04-28-2009 05:38 PM

The YJs never came with an electric fan(except maybe a small one on any that had A/C, although I have yet to see a YJ with A/C).

We'll from what I've been able to gather on the Grands, is that they only put the 5.9l engine in the 1998 limited models....so it's out of a '98. I tried to find a wiring diagram for that year but haven't been able to turn up anything yet. And yes the pigtail is still on the fan.

Again this may have to wait till I can get home and test the fan.

CJ7Taz 04-28-2009 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warthog (Post 1544474)
Again this may have to wait till I can get home and test the fan.

We’ll be here. We may be arguing (… er I mean debating) on this same thread but hopefully not.

In the meantime I’ll see if I can find a factory wiring diagram but I’m sure the fan is controlled buy the ECU and it’s not gonna help a lot.

CJ7Taz 04-29-2009 11:44 AM

How bling do you wanna go? Iíve found these while searching for a temperature switch. That 2000 hour low end on the life expectancy bothers me. The price ainít bad.

Found a dual temp switch for a BMW that would give you two speed if that fan you have is two speed.

I think one of the problems you are going to have is finding places for temperature sensors. You already have one for the gauge. You need another to control the fan and another for the idiot light/buzzer. I donít like the ones that insert into the end of the hose. Iíve seen some that just hang behind the radiator but Iím not fond of those either.

Itís beyond the scope of the assignment so maybe you would rather us leave part selection to you.

RRich 04-29-2009 12:17 PM

A thermostat housing from a later model 4.0 - like a 2000 or newer, has a temp sender hole that the earlier ones don't. It's on the top, so it's getting the hot water from the head, not the pump. The housings are the same mounting. Might be a good place for the fan thermo switch.

I just replaced a fan in a 90 Cherokee - only 2 wires - black is ground, white is hot. If they are reversed, the fan runs backwards. The fan cost me $5 at a wrecking yard. May be the simplest solution.

On house wiring and things like that, white signifies neutral - black is hot - I heard it started that way because black is the burnt color you'll be if you reverse them.

In Automotive, black usually signifies ground. Same for most electronics devices. Decent parts houses carry all the variations of switches you'd need for a fan installation, and they don't have to be mounted in J boxes. No, JC Penny does not carry them, neither does 7-11.

Most of the argument here was based on house/building wiring - unrelated to hooking up a fan. Fortunately after the fan is installed on the YJ (that's a Jeep Taz,) you don't have to call the building department to to get it inspected to make sure you had a permit and did it to code.

Jim_Lou 04-29-2009 12:34 PM

Quote:

On house wiring and things like that, white signifies neutral - black is hot
That always seemed strange. To me it makes more sense to have the hot wire white so it's easier to see, particularly in a dark area. I wonder how that got started.

CJ7Taz 04-29-2009 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRich (Post 1544511)
I just replaced a fan in a 90 Cherokee - only 2 wires - black is ground, white is hot. If they are reversed, the fan runs backwards. The fan cost me $5 at a wrecking yard. May be the simplest solution.

If it only has two leads and reversing them makes it run backwards, that would indicate a permanent magnet field.


Quote:

Originally Posted by RRich (Post 1544511)
On house wiring and things like that, white signifies neutral ...

As I stated, WHITE signifies the grounded conductor. For single phase/three wire, as commonly used in house wiring, the grounded conductor is the neutral but not so on all systems.


Quote:

Originally Posted by RRich (Post 1544511)
In Automotive, black usually signifies ground. Same for most electronics devices.

Make that battery powered electronic devices.


Quote:

Originally Posted by RRich (Post 1544511)
Decent parts houses carry all the variations of switches you'd need for a fan installation, ...

So does Radio Shack and most hardware stores.


Quote:

Originally Posted by RRich (Post 1544511)
... and they don't have to be mounted in J boxes. No, JC Penny does not carry them, neither does 7-11.

Now was that necessary?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRich (Post 1544511)
Fortunately after the fan is installed on the YJ (that's a Jeep Taz,) you don't have to call the building department to to get it inspected to make sure you had a permit and did it to code.

Or was that?

Still, fires are so inconvenient.

RRich 04-29-2009 04:38 PM

Jim - An old electrician told me about the black being hot when I was a kid. Yes, we did have electricity back then.

Taz, yes that was necessary since you were quoting electrical codes, obviously YOU had Jeeps and buildings mixed up. If you knew the difference between a Jeep and a building, why did you bother to show building codes?
The poster has a Jeep to put the fan in, not a building. Look at post #1.

Black as ground - Not just battery operated devices, TVs, radios, computers, aircraft, spacecraft, industrial machines, etc. often use black to signify a ground or return.
Using a battery does not change Ohms Law for the rest of the world.


Permanent magnets? Maybe so, I didn't look to see how old they were. You'd rather have something more complicated? (on a Jeep!)
KISS!

CJ7Taz 04-29-2009 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRich (Post 1544527)
Taz, yes that was necessary since you were quoting electrical codes, obviously YOU had Jeeps and buildings mixed up. If you knew the difference between a Jeep and a building, why did you bother to show building codes?

Somebody came along and made some claims about knowing and not knowing electricity and being an electrician or not.


Quote:

Originally Posted by RRich (Post 1544527)
Permanent magnets? Maybe so, I didn't look to see how old they were. You'd rather have something more complicated? (on a Jeep!)
KISS!

More powerful. Series wound like your starter and my Warn winch. Never had a reason to take a wiper or blower motor apart so I won’t make any predictions there. Not really more complicated, they just wrap the wire to the armature around the field pieces.


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