Wiring electric fan for thermostat and dash toggle??? - Page 2 - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups
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post #11 of (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
The other day when I was in the electric supply they had a whole wall full of SP/DT, SP/ST, DP/DT ...
I noticed more than one can't separate Pole Count from Throw...

Any of them start posting wiring diagrams is when I'll start to be impressed.

Anyway, Single Pole/Double Throw WITH/Center 'Off' is what some of you are trying to spit out.

Most common Double Throw switches you will find will be DOUBLE POLE, meaning TWO CIRCUITS through the switch,
One will just be unused...

PERSONALLY,
When I deep water ford, I use the second circuit in the switch to turn ON air pressure to my axles, transmission, transfer case, ignition, ect. so I don't drown the vehicle and wind up replacing expensive synthetic gear oil and trying to dry out the ignition...

Pretty simple to do, but we will need the OP to let us know what fans he wants to use before I can work up some wiring diagrams that will be the most efficient...
----------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepDawg View Post
I am quite happy with me DC Control variable speed fan controller..

One toggle switch...center off...up, bat to the AC input...forces the fan on not matter what....down pos applies power from the ign input....translation, center off...up, full speed, down, normal variable operation....

Love the thing....I get on the fwy...it shuts down because the air moving through the radiator is enough to cool the water.....city traffic...fan runs at slow to a med speed....I have yet to see it go to full speed....not hot enough outside yet....
I don't have a three speed controller, but I have the same deal with mine shutting off on highway, and it kicks on a weird times!
Mine is directly wired, so even after I park the vehicle and shut the engine off, the fan can come on... And that freaks people out sometimes...!

When you are working on it, you want to make sure you shut the fans off before sticking your hands down in there!

Last edited by TeamRush; 04-24-2009 at 12:59 AM.
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post #12 of (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamRush View Post
I noticed more than one can't separate Pole Count from Throw...
Guess you are going to have to point out the problem for me. I missed your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamRush View Post
Most common Double Throw switches you will find will be DOUBLE POLE, meaning TWO CIRCUITS through the switch,
One will just be unused...
Where are you finding all of these DP/DT with one unused circuit? Double pole is not that common. Most houses have a couple of SP/DT used in the wiring. They are used in pairs.

Wiring diagrams ainít gonna impress me. Iíve seen thousands, drawn hundreds of them. They are pretty simple.

The original poster already told you what fan he was using:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
... I picked up a good electric fan out of a 5.9l Grand Cherokee ...
He told you how he wants it to work:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
Now what I would like to do is have a three position toggle on the dash as well as have an adjustable thermostat:
position 1 - overide on(incase the the fan doesn't kick on for some reason)
position 2 - overide off(for any reason i would want to turn it off, say water crossing or something)
position 3 - auto(controlled by thermostat)
So whatís hard about that? No need to complicate it. I assumed he would he would use some kind of circuit protection or would at least come back and ask when he got to that point.

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Those who understand binary and those who don't.
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post #13 of (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hey guys,

took me a couple days to get back here...been busy workin out here floatin on a boat in the G.O.M.....nice to see you've been keeping yourselves entertained slaggin each other while I was gone...or CJ7TAZ more so .

Anyway, I think JeepDawg has the same setup as what I'm looking for, except rather than an ignition on(I'm assuming the fan automatically comes on as soon as you turn the key, I'd rather have it come on automatically when the thermostat hits a certain tempurature.

And the switch I planned on is an On/Off/On switch. I would like to wire in the warning light/buzzer. Have to agree, very good idea.

CJ7Taz was right, I did mention the fan is out of a 5.9l Grand Cherokee, not sure if many of you are familiar with this fan or not. I just grabbed it and haven't played with it yet...it's a three wire setup if that helps.

As for the Jeeps use, it's a daily driver, that sees a fair bit of offroad, but I don't do a lot of mud/water, more into the rocks...If I wanted a mud bogger I would have built some huge F$&% off FORD/CHEV/DODGE with some 500ci+ motor and tires entirely too big for any other use.

Thanks again for all the help and the entertainment
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post #14 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2009, 08:15 AM
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I'll point it out for you taz, you just don't know electric. They are not used in housing in pairs, those are 3-way switches, used to control lighting, etc from two locations. The ONLY place I've seen a DP/ST swithch used in a house was for the water heater, for a disconnect. DP/ST switches are not center position off and these are only rated as high as 30 amp A/C power and used on water heaters. I've installed many DP/DT center position off, but they were momentary contact used for lighting contactors or for some other controlling mechanism, but they returned to the center position by themselves. Even Sarah Palin says you are as full of it as the pile you sit upon. Just remember we're not in Kansas anymore ToTo. If your drawings are that good throw one up here and show the man how it should be done.

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post #15 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2009, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
I'll point it out for you taz, you just don't know electric. They are not used in housing in pairs, those are 3-way switches, used to control lighting, etc from two locations. The ONLY place I've seen a DP/ST swithch used in a house was for the water heater, for a disconnect. DP/ST switches are not center position off and these are only rated as high as 30 amp A/C power and used on water heaters. I've installed many DP/DT center position off, but they were momentary contact used for lighting contactors or for some other controlling mechanism, but they returned to the center position by themselves. Even Sarah Palin says you are as full of it as the pile you sit upon. Just remember we're not in Kansas anymore ToTo. If your drawings are that good throw one up here and show the man how it should be done.

BOOGER

"Sometimes Insanity and Genius walk the same side of the street"
Correct on all counts!

Wasted typing since taz isn't EVER going to get a grip on reality.. But still CORRECT!

Taz on 'Ignore' is a beautiful thing!
-----------------------

Anyway, 'Oh Sh!t' lights are pretty easy to wire, and I usually wire in a buzzer since I don't watch gauges when wheeling.
Good place for the second circuits on the DP/DT switches also.

You won't want the buzzer active when starting the vehicle, or doing normal driving...
--------------------------------

With three wires feeding the fan, it will be a two speed fan.
One wire 'High', one wire 'Low', one wire 'Ground'.

You will need a two stage controller, or TWO temp switches to power up both circuits in the fan.
Not hard to do at all, and is relatively cheap since the thermal switches are usually under $20.

I don't know how the fan is wound, so you may want to do a little experimentation and find out which is Low Speed, which is 'High' speed, and see what happens when both are connected...

Some 'High/Low' fans don't want the low speed connected when the 'High' is connected,
Others require it, so you will have to find that out before wiring.

It really doesn't matter, since it's just a change in relays to power it up from one to the other no matter what the configuration.
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post #16 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2009, 11:11 AM
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Actually I was asking TR, but since you decided to show your ignorance of electricity;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
They are not used in housing in pairs, those are 3-way switches, used to control lighting, etc from two locations.
Are you saying that a 3-way is not a single pole/double throw switch? Then what is it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
DP/ST switches are not center position off and these are only rated as high as 30 amp A/C power and used on water heaters.
Well DUH. If it’s SINGLE THROW, that’s ON/OFF. It would hardly need a second off position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
If your drawings are that good throw one up here and show the man how it should be done.
Well, if you insist but lets do a comparison.

This is the drawing you mailed me to scan for you. It was a starter drawing for an air compressor. Do you remember it?




You had the pressure switch shown normally open. It will never come on that way, so I fixed it for you.



No trickery these images were posted here on 09-13-2007.

I also scanned the instructions you sent along with the drawing.



Note in #1, you state the pressure switch is “normally open” when the tank is empty.

In #7, you say to break the neutral to wire the pressure switch on that side of the coil. That just isn’t proper. I emailed you the scans and told you I didn’t want to get involved.

You told me to FIX them for you and post them as yours.

I replied that if I fixed them, they would be my drawing and instructions not yours.


This was what I was working on but never posted because it was too different from yours.


There are 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Last edited by CJ7Taz; 04-25-2009 at 11:15 AM.
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post #17 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2009, 06:55 PM
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I GOT TRICKED!

It thought it was someone posting something constructive on the thread when it showed new postings...

Turned out just to be taz again...

OK, I'll go waste time somewhere else!
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post #18 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2009, 07:17 PM
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Ah.....the friendly banter of such good friends.....it was starting to get boring.....

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post #19 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2009, 08:04 PM
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Dawg I wondered when you'd be back. Taz you still don't get it, and never will, go to the electric supply or your favorite hardware and ask for what YOU say is a double pole switch instead of a 3-way (a 3-way has ONLY 3 terminals, how can it be a DP/DT switch?) and see what you get. even a 4-way switch isn't a double pole switch, and it has 4 terminals. As far as e-mail goes you never sent me anything saying you didn't want to be involved you just wanted to be sure I wasn't Teamrush or Aron871 cause you didn't want to give up your address cause you didn't want 50 pizza's showing up at your door. Besides I copied my drawing straight off the back inside cover of a Cutler Hammer starter and you still said it was wrong, explain that, and you say you can read/write drawings, you're still sitting high up on that pile of Dung there bud. Even YOUR drawing is wrong, nothing is protecting the control circuit and/or the equipment the starter is wired too.

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Last edited by Booger; 04-25-2009 at 08:07 PM. Reason: Because taz still don't get it
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post #20 of (permalink) Old 04-25-2009, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
Taz you still don't get it, and never will, go to the electric supply or your favorite hardware and ask for what YOU say is a double pole switch instead of a 3-way (a 3-way has ONLY 3 terminals, how can it be a DP/DT switch?) and see what you get.
I said SINGLE POLE/DOUBLE THROW NOT DOUBLE POLE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7Taz View Post
Are you saying that a 3-way is not a single pole/double throw switch? Then what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
even a 4-way switch isn't a double pole switch, and it has 4 terminals.
Sure it is. The number of external terminals doesnít define it. It is jumpered internally for a special purpose. There was no need to bring all 6 terminals out.

Go here

Scroll down to this chart


This just ain't that hard.


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Originally Posted by Booger View Post
... you just wanted to be sure I wasn't Teamrush or Aron871 cause you didn't want to give up your address cause you didn't want 50 pizza's showing up at your door.
That part is true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
Besides I copied my drawing straight off the back inside cover of a Cutler Hammer starter and you still said it was wrong,
You didnít copy very well but still, the problem is, with the pressure switch wired normally open, the compressor wonít start if the pressure is below the set point. If the pressure is above the set point, the compressor will continue to run until the compressor locks up or something explodes letting the pressure fall below the set point.

Another problem was switching the neutral with the pressure switch in violation of the National Electrical Code.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
Even YOUR drawing is wrong, nothing is protecting the control circuit and/or the equipment the starter is wired too.
Do you mean as in fusing or circuit breaker protection? No you didnít include any so I didnít either. It doesnít require any additional branch fusing if fed from a properly protected circuit from the breaker box.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger View Post
As far as e-mail goes you never sent me anything saying you didn't want to be involved ...
Yeah, I did. Iíve still got it in my Sent Items box.
Quote:
Beyond that, I donít think I want to get involved. There are some things I donít agree with both in the way it is shown in the drawing and described in the notes.
The problem may have been that there were 5 attachments and you were on dial up. I followed up with another e-mail to make sure you got them.

You replied;
Quote:
No I didn't get everything, you don't have to send it back to me, I know how they work and are set up to work.
I didnít know that you didnít get the body of the message. I thought you were just missing the attachments.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Last edited by CJ7Taz; 04-26-2009 at 01:27 AM.
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