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post #1 of (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Cool oil PSI????

well after running the motor and geting it hot my oil psi drops to 0 at idel and a lot of lifter noise that sucks lucky i have a spare moter i know runs good and makes good oil psi so its another weekend in the garge i still have a few weeks till may.will cast iron exauhst maafolds from a 73 j10 work on a 83 cj5 id like to do with out the headers i have now and run the exhaust out the back
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 05:25 PM
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As far as I know, the I4.2 exhaust manifold bolt pattern is the same for all years until they changed to the 4.0.

Headers? What, you don't like the sound (noise) they make? We know, it's one of those things that 'sounded like a good idea at the time'.......

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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its a v8 360
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUCKYOO7 View Post
well after running the motor and geting it hot my oil psi drops to 0 at idel
I think all AMC V8's do that.

"As the circle of my knowledge grows, so grows the circumference of the unknown." - Isaak Newton
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 02:12 PM
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First off,
Oil pressure dropping to ZERO PSI IS NOT 'NORMAL',
IT does NOT happen to 'EVERYONE',
And anyone suggesting you should ignore ZERO oil pressure has no idea at all what they are talking about!
----------------------------

Secondly,
What kind of gauge are you using?

Have you tested the pressure with a 'Test' gauge to make sure you dash gauge isn't broken?
-----------------------------

If you actually VERIFY there is ZERO PSI oil pressure, you MUST do something about it, or your engine will fail.
------------------------------

AMC engines, especially the V-8 engines, had a VERY POOR oiling system design.

The oil pump is actually undersized and made of the wrong materials.

The oil gallery and port designs are terrible, and there isn't much you can do about that unless you tear down/machine/rebuild your engine.
------------------------------

Some things you should consider,

1. Pressure is a function of VOLUME.
Not the other way around.
You MUST have the volume output at the pump to build pressure,
And you MUST have VOLUME delivered to the wear surfaces to build/maintain pressure.

2. Aluminum housing on the oil pump heats up and expands, that allows the Oil Pump Impellers excessive clearances, so pump efficiency drops dramatically as engine temprature increases.

3. Ports inside the front cover, pump housing, and block are often misaligned or grossly under sized.
Opening up and aligning some of these galleries/ports will deliver more VOLUME (and there by allow you to build Pressure).

4. The bypass valve on the filter head is often stuck partially open by 'Crud', broken or weak springs, ect.
You might service that valve when you change oil or do diagnostics on the oiling system.

5. The front camshaft bearing hemorrhages oil volume/pressure when it gets worn,
AND,
The accessories on the front of the camshaft accelerate that wear dramatically.

6. The galleries proceed front to back in the block, and along the way they feed Lifter Bores/Lifters, Cam Shaft Bearings, Main and Rod bearings, ect.
Each 'Loss' to one of the above listed components will reduce the Line/Gallery PRESSURE by removing some of the VOLUME of oil moving back in the block.

The 'Tighter' the bearing/lifter/ect. clearances are, the less 'Loss' you will have at each 'Friction Point'.

7. The block galleries (Front to rear) are too small to supply enough oil to the rear of a properly built engine.
One solution is to install a 'Loop' circuit in the engine oil system.
This is nothing more than tube you install transferring volume to the REAR of the block, at the same time the factory galleries deliver oil to the FRONT of the block.
Costs about $30 to have the machining done and install when you rebuild the engine.

8. There is NO SUCH THING as a 'High Volume' or 'High Pressure' AMC V-8 oil pump, no matter what the advertisements say.

The ONLY way to produce more 'Pressure' is to increase the VOLUME of the pump.
The only way to produce more VOLUME is to use a larger IMPELLER SET...
Which you CAN NOT do in the stock timing cover...

(There can be some very small increases in volume between slight changes in Impeller Designs, but it's not enough to be noticed on stock engines.)

Since the Impellers have SET DIMENSIONS for spacing, height, diameter, ect., there is no way to dramatically change the volume of the stock pump no matter what you do...

9. OIL PUMP CLEARANCES ARE CRITICAL!
DO NOT 'GUESS' AT OIL PUMP CLEARANCES!
Get the proper 'Plasti-Gauge', and check the pump clearances properly!

If the floor plate of the pump (top part of the filter head) has grooves in it, you can replace with newer model of stock,
Or,
Get a 'Mid Plate', a stainless steel plates that fits between filter head and oil pump to give a smooth surface to the oil pump impellers again.

10. Consider using the front cover/oil pump off a later model ('87-'91) Full Size Jeep engine, like from Grand Wagoneer engines...
They are better built, have tighter tolerances, and don't have the filter bypass valve in the filter head part of the pump.
--------------------------------

In the end, low pressure complaints are usually just excessive clearances in the 'Friction Parts' allowing the engine to lose too much oil volume in the gaps...

Rebuilding the pump might help you, and you don't have to take the engine apart to do it,
But most of the time, you will have to at least take the intake and front timing cover off the engine to fix the front camshaft bearing or to see any of the other potential problems...
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for all the info i do have another motor that i know runs and makes oil psi to put in it and ill rebuild this one at a later date
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUCKYOO7 View Post
thanks for all the info i do have another motor that i know runs and makes oil psi to put in it and ill rebuild this one at a later date
When you do your rebuild,
Pay particular attention to the rods and mains. Keep the tolerances TIGHT!
These are bearings you CAN do something about the amount of oil volume they hemorrhage.

I won't put one together without putting in an oil tube from front to rear of the engine block.
Just makes the engine live SO MUCH LONGER you wouldn't believe it!

Anytime you have the front cover off an AMC engine,
Take the intake off too (not very difficult) and replace the front camshaft bearing.
You can do this without having to open the bottom end of the engine, and a fresh front cam shaft bearing will save you a ton of oil volume loss.
People just don't realize how much of a beating that front bearing takes with the accessory drives on it, and then add in a sloppy drive chain, and things REALLY go to he!! in a hurry!

There are a few tricks you can do for the front pump and front timing cover that will help oiling in the long haul...

One is to make sure the passages line up!
You wouldn't believe how misaligned the passages from front cover/pump can be to the block!

Internal passages in the front cover are a good place to start opening some ports up for volume...
There are a couple of passages that are WAY TOO SMALL and create a restriction for the POTENTIAL oil volume that can never leave the pump chamber!

Check for oversize lifter bores when the intake is off.
Sometimes they get wallowed out and drool a BUNCH of oil volume.
----------------------------------------------

Just stuff like that when you are ready for rebuild!
If you shut the engine down now, you will save the rear rods and crankshaft journal...

#7 & #8 rods like to dry out the most (Furthest back in the oiling lineup) and wipe out the crankshaft...
You WILL NOT see it coming, just one day, you will get a 'Knock' that will get louder and the engine will loose power.

When you disassemble, you will find the bearings hammered out of the rods,
The rods will be wiped out and non reusable,
And that journal on the crankshaft will be ruined, usually ruining the crankshaft entirely.

Usually when #7 & #8 rods oil escapes (hemorrhages) out,
#4 & #5 Main Caps usually don't get enough oil, and they often go when #7 & #8 rods do.

This not only will seal the fate of the crankshaft,
but it will ruin the block for all intents and purposes also...
That is, if by the time the rods fail enough to let you know, you haven't broken one of the cast iron rods and wiped out a cylinder or main web in the block...
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 04:45 PM
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oil pressure

if it was me and the valves clattered id pull the valve cover and see if rockers was getting oil, but you loose a lot of lbs. threw the worn cam bearings. then or a bad pump or a clogged pick up . im thinking hyd lifters

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 05-28-2009, 07:57 AM
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does the lifter noise go away if you give the jeep some gas?

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post #10 of (permalink) Old 05-28-2009, 08:14 PM
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Hey Pat....

Before you take the time to change the engine and maybe that will be best....

Use a mechanical oil pressure gauge not an electronic one.

Yes I know you have some valve train noise but that might be pretty simple.


Dale

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