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post #1 of (permalink) Old 11-10-1999, 02:58 PM
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HELP! No Breaks

My breaks have been leaking on and off since I had a mechanic bleed them. I have kept it full of fluid until I could fix this. I didnít get to bleed the breaks last weekend like I wanted to. Today as I was pulling out of work for lunch I heard a pop and then the sound a spring would make flying up into the engine compartment. When I got to the road there were NO BREAKS! The pedal went right to the floor. I checked the fluid and it was full. I tried to look at the pedal lever but it was too dark. Tonight I'll study my Hayes book and Iíll bring a flashlight tomorrow with me to work on it. Any help would be great.
Thanks, Jeff


'83 CJ7 258 i6 31x10.5 3in. lift?
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 11-10-1999, 03:56 PM
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Re: HELP! No Breaks

You drive with leaking brakes? I'm shocked. This is very dangerous. You should never do this. BTW, where is it leaking. That info would
sure help to narrow down the problem.

Gary
post #3 of (permalink) Old 11-10-1999, 05:10 PM
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Re: HELP! No Breaks

Hey Gary, the leaky break thing isnít something I enjoy driving with. Itís not like I open the bleeders a little for fun. They started leaking about a week or two after a shop bled them for me. I was going in for my inspection and the breaks were spongy so I asked them to do it. The wheel they used (rear driver side) is the one I saw leaking. In October I got married, went on a honeymoon and closed on a house. Iíve been a little busy. Two weekends ago I was moving and couldnít work on it, last weekend things came up with the new house that needed to be taken care of. I kept filling the reservoir with break fluid and some days it would leak a little and some days not at all. As long as I pumped the air in the system the breaks were fine.
After the breaks went today I thought the bleeder screw blew out completely, but the reservoir is still full of fluid. I think it might have something to do with the pedal mechanism but I donít know it that well. Thank for the help, any ideas are good.

p.s.- Not to sound stupid (I am driving with leaking breaks) but what does BTW stand for?


'83 CJ7 258 i6 31x10.5 3in. lift?
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 11-10-1999, 05:19 PM
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Re: HELP! No Breaks

BTW stands for " by the way ". If it's the wheel cylinder bleed screw that leaks and you can't tighten it anymore I suggest you replace
it with a new part. They really don't cost much and it's worth the peace of mind.

Gary
post #5 of (permalink) Old 11-10-1999, 05:24 PM
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Re: HELP! No Breaks

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] BTW means: "By The Way." A Jeep colloquialism for: "I have one more thing to ask/tell you." It really has nothing to do with brakes....like there is no BTW valve which controls the gemis. When I saw your post, I first thought that your boss had cut off the employee coffee and lunch breaks.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 11-11-1999, 09:13 AM
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Re: HELP! No Breaks

Not yet, I still get lunch breaks. Thanks for the advice and the BTW info, I saw it all over and never knew what it was. Too bad there isn't a BTW valve, it would be easer then traceing the break problem. I think I need to change the breeder screw but I don't think it's the problem here. I think the pedal is no longer connected to the system. I checked the Hayes book and they are very clear on the drum and disk break units but not the pedal. I'm here at work on my day off to fix this, I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks again, Jeff

'83 CJ7 258 i6 31x10.5 3in. lift?
post #7 of (permalink) Old 11-11-1999, 10:29 AM
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Re: HELP! No Breaks

HELP! Please CJDave give me your break knowledge. The pedal looks fine and is connected. I can push it right to the floor with no resistance and both reservoirs are full. I took off the master cylinder, how do I know if itís bad?
Thanks for all the help, Iím new at fixing this stuff myself, Jeff


'83 CJ7 258 i6 31x10.5 3in. lift?
post #8 of (permalink) Old 11-11-1999, 02:30 PM
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Re: HELP! No Breaks

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Is that CJ equipped with power brakes, Jeff? [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

CJDave
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 11-11-1999, 09:23 PM
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Re: HELP! No Breaks

Sorry, to contradict all the advise everyone is giving you, but I think I have a different reason for this problem. I think it is the master
cylinder that is dead. The pop you heard might have been the internal piston seal going. There are several good reasons for my
saying this. First, if it was just the bleader screw, or any other component on that rear drivers side break, you would still have the
front breaks working. This is because modern jeeps (is any such thing) have two seperate brake systems. One that operates the
front brakes and a seperate one that operates the rear breaks. (therefor the two seperate bowl sections) The idea being that if you
lose one system the other still works. In order for your breaks to totally fail like that you would have to lose break pressure in both
systems at once. This is not very likely. Especially when you figure that at least one of those component failures would probably
mean dumping your break fluid on the ground, and not leaving it sitting in your bowl. If the master cylinder piston seals breaks then
the pedal could easily go to the floor. This is because, in effect the piston would just be swooshing the fluid around in its bore
without actually creating any fluid pressure on the breaks. It is posssible that the leak at the rear could be just some spilled fluid
from your prior break job. There is also the possibility that it is a seperate smaller problem.
This could not be the bleed screw,because if it was you would have pressure until the bowl was dry.
This could not be the booster, because if it was you would still have breaks just very week ones. Like when the engine is off.
The only other possible cause could be that you had a mechanical break in the pedal assembly. I have rebuilt these and I don't find
that to be likely. Can't hurt to look though.
On the up side master cylinders are cheap. I used to work for a parts store, and most were in the $20 range for a rebuild one. You
could even rebuild it yourself for about $10, but don't do that unless you like to take the hard way. I even have one off my 83' CJ7
that you can have for $10. I would buy a rebuilt one though. You will have to bleed the entire system when you do this, and I would
suggest you think about servicing all your breaks now as bleeding them is half the work.
Ethan
I know this may be jumpy. I was interupted several times while writing this.

post #10 of (permalink) Old 11-12-1999, 01:22 AM
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Re: HELP! No Breaks

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] I'm surprised to see that there is someone out there who still thinks that split braking systems were for the safety of the vehicle operators. That WAS the excuse Detroit gave at the time, but the real reason was that you cannot combine the disc system and the drum system without some sort of compensating scheme because the drums...which are self energizing...operate at a much lower pressure than the disc system does.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] That's like the rack and pinion steering myth....you know the one...where we need to replace the entire steering system every seventy thousand...but we are SO much better off to have rack and pinion...when the real reason was that they couldn't figure out how to run the steering shaft through the crosswise engine, so they bull****ted us with the rack and pinion story.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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