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post #1 of (permalink) Old 07-09-2007, 03:40 PM
88JeepYJ
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new here with a ?

hello,

I have an issue with a rebuilt trans i bought, and i was wondering if anyone might know more about the problem i'm having.

As my sig says, i have T-176 4spd. I bought it rebuilt with no shifter cover. I put my old shift cover on it and put it all together. i took it for its initial ride and it shifts great! no grinding....but theres some other noise present now. When coasting in neutral, i hear a chattering/intermittent ringing from the trans, and i can feel it through the shifter.

After thinking about it, driving it somemore, it hasn't gone away so i know its not a break in issue, i have around 55 miles on it.

The noise only happens between 40-15mph while coasting. and right before the noise stops if you pull against 2nd gear slightly, the noise changes, goes away. My hypothesis is that my shifter top from my old worn out T-176 is worn as well! doh! and the 1st/2nd gear selector sleeve is chattering between the shift fork. Sounds like the reverse may get slapped against too. Kinda makes a click...click...click noise as well. thats why i was thinking reverse gear.

I'd appreciate any advice. Should i get a new shift fork? whole new shifter cover? all new shift forks? Please help.
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 07:54 AM
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Hey, another 88YJ, and a guy from Bellingham... whoda thunk it!

Can't say I know much about the T176, but I know the plastic pads in my old NP435 shifter forks would wear. Guess I can't help much, other than to say you should replace those if it has them, and if they're worn.

But judging by the list of cool stuff in your sig, you probably knew that.

Pete, Northboro.

88YJ: Old, noisy, slow, and just generally wonderful. Wheeling Jeep.
04WJ: Less old, less noisy, less slow, daily driver Jeep.
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 12:07 PM
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I donít think you would get a clicking sound with the reverse gear at 15-40 mph. You didnít explain ďcoastingĒ, is that clutch in with the transmission in gear or transmission in neutral with the clutch engaged? Either way, the mainshaft is turning pretty fast and the reverse idler is turning in the opposite direction. Itíd make a heck of a grinding noise.

Where did you buy a transmission without the shift tower installed? I canít imagine a reputable shop doing it that way. Iíd think they would have installed yours if they didnít have one.

From the information given, my guess is the clearance between the 1st/2nd syncro and 2nd gear is too wide allowing the blocking ring to get cocked and rattle. Take the top off and check for wear marks and check the clearance on the 2nd gear blocking ring. See if it seems loose.

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 01:52 PM
88JeepYJ
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When i'm coasting to a stop, the noise happens with the clutch in or out, no change in the noise. If the trans is in gear when you pushin the clutch and coast it clicks slower, maybe twice a second, and gets slower as you slow down. What should the synchro clearence be for 2nd?

It was a company in PA, they sell them with and with out covers. i was strapped for money so i got the one with out the cover, figureing i'd use mine old one. supposedly they have 20 years exp. in rebuilding all different types of jeep transmissions.

Storks Automotive | Jeep Snow Plow Parts and Accessories

I will check the clearence. and get back to you. Thanks i knew there was guru of t176's out there somewhere. I hope its not a major fix.
post #5 of (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 01:54 PM
88JeepYJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete88YJ View Post
Hey, another 88YJ, and a guy from Bellingham... whoda thunk it!

Can't say I know much about the T176, but I know the plastic pads in my old NP435 shifter forks would wear. Guess I can't help much, other than to say you should replace those if it has them, and if they're worn.

But judging by the list of cool stuff in your sig, you probably knew that.

Pete, Northboro.
Cool man. Maybe i'll see you out in the trails.
post #6 of (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88JeepYJ View Post
supposedly they have 20 years exp. in rebuilding all different types of jeep transmissions.
The company only claims to have been in business "over 15 years". Their primary business seems to be in selling parts and vehicles, not rebuilding transmissions.

Iíve got 18 years experience rebuilding T-176 transmissions. (I rebuilt mine 18 years ago and twice since)
Iíve got 16 years experience rebuilding AMC 258 engines. (I rebuilt one 16 years ago)
Ya gotta watch those ďexperienceĒ claims.

Check the endplay on the cluster gear too. Itís real easy to have one of the trust washers slip out of place while putting the cluster in place.

Beyond that, itís check for noise in every gear including reverse and neutral for all possible modes, accelerating, maintaining speed, decelerating and check all gears with the clutch in and out. If that doesnít show anything, itís time to pull it out, open it up and see if you can created the noise rotating the shafts by hand.

It sounds like you got a bad rebuild but I canít be sure of that from the information here.

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 06:12 PM
88JeepYJ
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You know now that i think back before i put it in, i was spining it around by hand and could hear something that sounded like grinding/chattering. I also remember noticing when the sleeve was engaged too far into 1st, the sleeve would rub the countershaft gear just under it.

The blocker rings also seemed to have alot of slop between the sleeve and the clutching teeth(while the sleeves were in the N position), all of the rings were like this. So were the ones on my old one too!

The blocker ring clearence seemed to be about .050(maybe more) i remember when i was looking at them, i also compared that clearence with the old trans and the old one had no clearence at all, so i knew that old trans was shot to the max. My first instinct was that i'm gonna have an issue with this trans. But i figured the only way to know for sure was to stick it in and try it. wrong

I'm a student @ Universal Technical Institute (UTI) and we have gone threw manual transmissions. me and my group during that class disassemble/reassembled a toyota 5-speed, and i remember the blocker rings weren't loose as a goose on that trans, or any of the transmissions that were around in the classroom.

I should have rebuild the dam thing myself, but i just didn't have the time, and didn't really know where to get a good step by step manual for rebuilding it. I also don't have a press, but i will dish the cash out for a press. but now i'm stuck, do i call them up give them hell, and make them take it back? with that comes down time and i can't afford that for more then 3 days. Or i can get the press, pull this think apart and maybe figure out whats missing and fix it. It doesn't look all that complicated to do. not much there compared to that toyota 5 speed.

Whats your suggestion? and where can i find a nice manual for it? but i think your right, it never seemed right to me since i first tried to spin it by hand. It was actually stuck when i first tried it by hand.(Would not spin freely in Neutral).

Thank you btw

Last edited by 88JeepYJ; 07-10-2007 at 06:18 PM.
post #8 of (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 07:13 PM
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Press? You figuring on publishing a newspaper? You donít need a press to rebuild a T-176.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 88JeepYJ View Post
do i call them up give them hell,
Not the way Iíd start out. There will be plenty of time to escalate to that point later. Start out nicely telling them you have a problem. Now, if youíd been around here for any time, youíd know I donít do escalators. Somebody heads for one, I go to the elevator and press the penthouse button. I figure thatís where weíre gonna end up anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 88JeepYJ View Post
Or i can get the press, pull this think apart and maybe figure out whats missing and fix it.
Once you do that, you bought it. See if you can get them to stand behind their work. Youíve got a problem with suspecting a possible problem but installing it anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 88JeepYJ View Post
It was actually stuck when i first tried it by hand.(Would not spin freely in Neutral).
Thatís kinda normal. Get a couple of blocking rings engaged at the same time and it wonít spin, ya gotta shake it back and forth a little.


Check the Chilton manual for CJs 1980 up if you need to rebuild it. Thatís what I used the first time.

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 07:50 PM
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hmm you have an interesting view on things, i'm going to try and talk to them and figure it out, you never know maybe they will send a different one right away.

but i'm confident that if they won't honor it, i'll be able to fix it. I appreciate all your time and help...i'm gonna get a few other opinions 1st and start by taking off the top cover and use my eyeometer and try to see if i can pinpoint what is happening.

Thanks again!
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