I would like a GOOD GOUND for my Alternator - Page 3 - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups
Jeep-Short Wheelbase All discussion of short wheelbase Jeeps: CJ, TJ, YJ and JK

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of (permalink) Old 06-26-2007, 12:55 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 5,383
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Quote:
Obviously a 6" piece of 10 will carry more than a mile of #1.
Had a guy in here about a week ago (more or less) that was having starting problems...
Load tested the starter solenoid and starter cable, but it was pretty obvious before that it was a battery terminal/battery cable problem...

So, instead of doing what I recommended, he purchased a discount store battery cable...
Still had the same problem, more or less.

Finally he gave up and brought it here again.
Took off the discount cable, tested it for connections, no resistance to speak of...
Load tested it, and it failed miserably.

Started stripping insulation, First off, it was supposed to be a 6 gauge wire, turned out to be about 9 gauge actual...
And at one point about three inches from the battery terminal, the wire was frayed down to two strands...

The guy kept saying that he 'Saved' $11 dollars over the cable we wanted to build for him...

Here is the kicker, the local 'Auto-Jerks' wouldn't take the cable back because we had removed parts of the insulation!
-----------------


Quote:
Obviously a 6" piece of 10 will carry more than a mile of #1.
True!
Resistance builds over distance with DC current.
Doesn't matter how much voltage you put in, at distance you can't get any amperage out because internal resistance will have consumed it and expelled it as heat.

The reason Edison's power plants never took off is because you can't push DC current long distances.
Just over a mile from the generating station you will get nothing usable, and low voltage DC generators were EXPENSIVE to build and a nightmare to maintain!

AC current will transmit over hundreds of miles and the generators are much easier to build and much stronger designs...
------------------------

As to the original question, before the thread got 'taz-e-fied'...

The reason for an alternator not getting a good ground, or anything else for that matter...
Is easy!
You are tring to drive electrons through things that don't conduct electricity very well, or in some cases at all.

Paint, rust, mud, loose fasteners, steel, cast iron or aluminum are all horrible conductors of electricity.

Most jeeps have a 'Ground' wire that connects to the engine block or the alternator bracket.
This is a 'Median' location to save the cost of a proper ground wire to all systems.

Now, you have a copper wire...
(I hope! Some of you have steel woven straps!)
Connecting to a steel bracket or iron block or head via a rusty bolt...

This single undersize connection is supposed to supply 'Ground' to the largest consumer in the system, the starter.
How may steel to iron to aluminum connections via rusty bolts, through poorly fitting spacers and engine gaskets is there in that 'Circuit'?

Lets see, The rusty bolt that connects the wire to the head or bracket, in the case of the bracket, the painted steel bracket it's self, then through the paint again to a bolt to the cast iron head or rusty bolt to the oxide coated aluminum alternator housing, then to another rusty bolt to the voltage regulator & rectifier,
OR,
In the case of the starter, through that second coat of paint to the rusty bracket to head bolt, then through a cast iron head to the rusty and sealer coated head bolts,
Then to the cast iron engine block...
The head gasket will keep a direct head to block connection from happening...

Then through a rusty bolt to an oxydation coated aluminum bell housing, then through another rusty bolt to the aluminum starter frame, then through another bolt to the steel starter housing, then through another rusty starter bolt to the starter windings...

Anyway, you get the idea...

Run a dedicated, large gauge ground to the starter housing directly, since this is where the largest draw is going to happen...

Run a heavy wire (8 or 10 Ga.) to the alternator housing so the device that creates every electron your vehicle uses can function properly.

It's also a good idea to ground the engine it's self...
You have gauges that require an adequate ground to function properly.
Since the engine ground usually supplies the ground to both the primary and secondary sides of the ignition, it's a good thing for them also.

In addition, the front grill needs a dedicated ground for the front lights, electric fans, ect.

The rear needs a dedicated ground for the rear lights, trailer hookup, fuel tank sender, ect.

The dash needs a dedicated ground so your wipers, dash lights, radio & other accessories work correctly and to the best of their abilities.

Grounding the frame and drive line is a wonderful idea...
------------------

Guys argue this all the time, but the facts are NOT in dispute...

FACT.
The factory employs people to figure out how to use the least amount of materials and make the least amount of connections in order to 'save' money.

FACT.
What passes for 'Ground' in most vehicles means the engineers have decided what the absloute LEAST they can get by with and still have the vehicle live through the warranty period.

FACT.
The factory didn't use the best of anything.
And now those 'Good Enough' parts are 25 to 40 years out of warranty...

FACT.
If you have the knowledge, and you look around a little, you can do so much better with the replacement parts you use...

FACT.
If you were only interested in using the factory components, you wouldn't be looking for a better way to do things and wouldn't be here asking questions and (hopefully) learning something.
Junk Yard Genius is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of (permalink) Old 06-26-2007, 01:59 PM
Official Curmudgeon
 
CJ7Taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,706
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
Doesn't matter how much voltage you put in, at distance you can't get any amperage out because internal resistance will have consumed it and expelled it as heat.
Wrong!!!!!!!! In a series circuit, resistance DOES NOT CONSUME CURRENT. The current is the same anywhere in the circuit. Each resistance has a VOLTAGE drop across it. Using that voltage drop times the current, we can get the wattage that it expels as heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
The reason Edison's power plants never took off is because you can't push DC current long distances.
Just over a mile from the generating station you will get nothing usable, and low voltage DC generators were EXPENSIVE to build and a nightmare to maintain!
AC or DC makes no difference in your ďPUSHĒ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
AC current will transmit over hundreds of miles and the generators are much easier to build and much stronger designs...
You are confusing facts and doing your usual conclusion jumping.

You would have the same problems with AC or DC at the same voltage and current. With AC, however, you can transform the voltage up to a much higher level and then transform it down again. Power (wattage) is voltage x current. When you transform the voltage up, the amperage drops for the same wattage. This allows smaller transmission wire and results in a lower percentage of voltage drop. The voltage drop of course is the same for a given resistance and current but the percentage of the higher voltage is lower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
As to the original question, before the thread got 'taz-e-fied'...
As to the ORIGINAL question, it was asked and then answered by TiminMb. I moved on but your mensa membership wouldnít let you resist trying to show how smart you were but you FAILED by giving misinformation about wire size, how electrons flow, etc. You ran into someone with a much higher IQ, a lifetime of experience in the electrical field, a journeymans card and an electrical engineering degree. I knew what BS you were trying to pass of and I corrected your misinformation.


Both you and Rich looked like you might be players here years ago but since then you have overstepped you knowledge level and spread a bunch of BS. I know electrical, Iíve been doing it more years than you are old and have better experience and knowledge. You keep wanting to pretend to be smarter than you are by spreading your BS and I have to slap you down. Itís also cost you your credibility. If you are spreading BS about this, can anyone trust you in anything you post.

If it were just you and I, Iíd just walk off and have a good laugh at your expense but there is a large membership here, some of whom might buy into your bad advice and that could cause them a lot of problems.

Stick to what you know and try to be helpful with it. Instead you want to feed your ego and try to achieve king of the hill status by constant attacks on other. You think that if you attack others it makes you look better. Well, right know, you are looking ridiculous with your made up facts, misconceptions and just plain false statements. As GeeAea once put it, you just canít share the stage.

I ainít got time to play with you anymore for a while. My son and granddaughter are on their way over to spend some time in the pool again. See ya later.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who understand binary and those who don't.
CJ7Taz is offline  
post #23 of (permalink) Old 06-26-2007, 03:59 PM
Way Outta Control
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: usa
Posts: 10,815
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Wow! He sure doesn't have a clue!

TAZ - look at the thread, JYG answered the guys question as to how to and where to run a ground wire to help out the alternator - and why.
I added a little to that suggesting a few more grounds elsewhere wouldn't hurt.

YOU are the one that proclaimed everyone is wrong with your bogus charts.

YOU are the one that got insulting.

YOU are the one that once again, you don't have a clue.

I hope the original question has been answered before all your nonsensical fuzz!

If you understood AC vs. DC in other than sexual terms, you'd understand why DC has more drop than AC. Clue - Does RMS mean anything to you?

Time to go back and TRY to impress your step grandkids with your electric toy trains. Do it while they are young, once they start to grow up even they won't be impressed with you.

The reason I bought the small cable is my concern, not yours - you'd never understand, but you'd make an issue of it just to be an idiot.
For the reason I bought it it's more than sufficient.

My point was you claimed they didn't sell it and other stores don't sell it! You even missed that little detail.
RRich is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of (permalink) Old 06-26-2007, 10:38 PM
Official Curmudgeon
 
CJ7Taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,706
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
 
Rich, you need to learn to read and comprehend what you read, otherwise and in all seriousness, you are displaying the early signs of dementia. You get a completely different idea about what was posted and then when confronted with it, you claim somebody edited their post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRich View Post
TAZ - look at the thread, JYG answered the guys question as to how to and where to run a ground wire to help out the alternator - and why.
I did look at this thread, Iíd suggest you do the same.

Here is the original post with the question highlighted for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuaneD View Post
Swapping in a 94 4.0 motor into my CJ has taught me a lot. One of the last things I want to do with the motor is create a seperate ground for the stock alternator. Where on the alternator should I connect the ground wire and where should I run it to...the frame, engine mount, straight back to the negative terminal of the battery, where? Thanks for the help.
Here is TiminMbís post which is two posts above jygís post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiminMb View Post
I'd run it from a bolt on the body of the alternator right back to the negative terminal of the battery. I have a ground cable from the negative terminal to a bolt through the firewall where I have a second cable to the dash (metal dash on a cj). It might be overkill, but who could fault someone having separate grounds to the block, grill, firewall, dash, starter solenoid, alternator? If you have the time, go for it. A common brass terminal on the firewall might be a good place to branch out from for smaller secondary grounds, and I'd run a heavy separate one to the block and alternator.
Asked and answered. The original post didnít ask about wire size or anything else. Also notice that there are no edit notes at the bottom of these posts. How can you try to spin something thatís there for the whole world to see?


jyg then came along and plagiarized CJDaveís usual comment about grounds with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
We've been preaching this for years!

Here is the scoop,
Electrically speaking,
You are driving several jeeps in very close formation, but none of them actually connected...
Here is a typical CJDave post about driving four Jeeps not grounded together.

Then jyg got into voluntarily recommending wire size that was never asked about but his recommendations were for too small wire sizes. Thatís where I got involved.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RRich View Post
I added a little to that suggesting a few more grounds elsewhere wouldn't hurt.
You simply restated what had already been said with a ďme tooí post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RRich View Post
YOU are the one that proclaimed everyone is wrong with your bogus charts.
Whatís bogus about them? Support your claim.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RRich View Post
If you understood AC vs. DC in other than sexual terms, you'd understand why DC has more drop than AC. Clue - Does RMS mean anything to you?

What, is Ohmís law different for AC than it is for DC? Which one does E=IR apply too? Yes, I know what RMS is but you obviously donít since you are trying to apply it here. What does it have to do with DC having more drop than AC? Wait, before you answer, Iím still waiting on an explanation of a do-nothing diode in jygís stealth ignition module, the one Dale pointed out that had no purpose and you argued about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RRich View Post
Time to go back and TRY to impress your step grandkids with your electric toy trains. Do it while they are young, once they start to grow up even they won't be impressed with you.
Where did you get the idea they are step grandkids? One is, a boy from a former marriage but the granddaughter is the daughter of my son or are you trying to imply something else? That there is something illegitimate about her? NOW, IíM INSULTED AND I EXPECT NOTHING LESS THAN A FULL AND IMMEDIATE APOLOGY FOR YOUR STATEMENT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRich View Post
The reason I bought the small cable is my concern, not yours - you'd never understand, but you'd make an issue of it just to be an idiot.
For the reason I bought it it's more than sufficient.

My point was you claimed they didn't sell it and other stores don't sell it! You even missed that little detail.
I never said they didnít sell them. What I said was Iíd never seen them here. No edit note at the bottom of this post either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7Taz View Post
Must be a California thing, more greenie stuff. Here, Iíve never seen battery cables smaller than 4 AWG at AutoZONE or ADVANCED Auto, I can always find 2 AWG and sometimes 1/0. Doing a quick check, 4 AWG is the smallest I found on the AutoZONE website. If I were going to the trouble to build my own cables, theyíd be 2/0.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who understand binary and those who don't.
CJ7Taz is offline  
post #25 of (permalink) Old 06-27-2007, 11:49 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 5,383
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Now, If our moderators were awake, and taz was insulting, he should be cooling off somewhere else...
--------------

Anyway, RMS is the correct answer...

taz is stuck on high frequency AC wiring for some reason, and I don't know why....
He's been stuck on the same broken record for every conversation we've had about wire size and conductivity.
Not only is he spouting High Frequency AC, but he's often quoting theoretical information that created a stir a while back, and has since been disproved.
I followed the same theories about 'Holes', 'Anti-Electrons', Shell Coatings & Castings, ect, but it turned out to be false...
So I guess he's shot on both counts...

The only part of all that mess that hasn't been disproven is the 'Holes' theory...

Basic Physics requires a seprate and equal reaction for every action.
So if an electron moves in one direction, then something has to go back the other way...

That's where the 'Anti-Electron' or 'Hole' idea came from...
And I agree that Something has to be moving to compensate for the electrons flow in one direction... I'm just not equipped to magnify down to a sub molecular level to give a definitive answer.
The difference between me and taz is, I know that I don't have the answer and I'm not likely to come up with definitave proof anytime soon!

All the other crap about Shell coatings, casting shells, ect. was disproven, but that doesn't stop a good idea from being used long after it's death by guys that didn't bother to read 'Page 2'...

I especially liked his version of an DC circuit turning on and off when trailride or what ever his user name was, was on his soap box...
tas actually called a PULSING DC circuit an AC circuit!
That pretty much clinched it for me that he didn't understand the difference between AC and DC, (or wiring in general).

I have taz on 'Ignore' now, so all I see of his posts is what you guys comment on and quote,
(STOP IT! YOU are feeding the web troll!).

Life is so much nicer with the 'Ignore' button working!
You would be better off telling anyone wanting correct information to 'Ignore' taz so the information and/or debate can continue with correct information in a civil format.
--------------------

Besides, it's been my experience that AC guys don't understand DC...
And DC guys don't understand AC.
I see guys that design Circuits all day long in DC that can quote text book pages on AC, but will still screw it up...
Same in reverse with guys that work in AC all the time.

Remember, we've had at least three self proclaimed 'Experts', (claiming to be "Electrical Engineers" in power plants no less!), that didn't know how a diode worked or what it did, and raised bloody hell with me when I suggested using one instead of a resistor for the alternator connection...
(one of those guys turned out to be a janitor/maintenance man at a switching sub station out west when some of you finally met him in person)

Now the ideas we cook up here are being published in the magazines... (Thieving peterson group... )
Ignition upgrades, alternator upgrades, ect.
Even John Strinks "Stealth HEI" has made the magazines!
-------------------------

I urge everyone to find a copy of the Brown & Sharp chart for copper conductors, and actually LEARN some correct PROVEN information about DC wiring.
Brown & Sharp scale is still the standard that all DC guys use, although it usually called Conductor vs. Amperage scale or something stupid like that...

If you all can't find it, I'll copy it and give it a home on my web site...
------------------

Anyway, the correct answer is Resistance.
Do a resistance test between your alternator case and your battery negative post. Note the reading.

Start the vehicle and do the same test.
If your reading is higher (and it will be),
YOU NEED A DEDICATED GROUND.

And as for the posted quote, "...Electrons Don't Have A Road Map..."

You are SO WRONG I don't even know where to begin!
Why do you think we put conductors on circuit boards?
So the electrons have a road map!

Why do you think we use switches and resistors?
So we can give electrons an 'Off Ramp' and 'Speed Bumps'!

Electrons have a road map, it's the first law of electricity, and it's just like ours!
"Current will take the path of least resistance."

They take the Interstate first for faster and less restricted travel,
When the interstate is closed or congested, they will start looking for alternative routes of conveyance...

Anyone with a tail light ground problem knows what happens with the primary 'freeway' is blocked...
Those little electrons get out the road map and start out on roads WE never intended them to be on!!!

Last edited by Junk Yard Genius; 06-27-2007 at 12:09 PM.
Junk Yard Genius is offline  
post #26 of (permalink) Old 06-27-2007, 12:09 PM
Official Curmudgeon
 
CJ7Taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,706
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
 
WHERE IS THAT APOLOGY, RICH?

You posted here an hour and a half ago but no apology. Iím still waiting.

Your actions were inexcusable to make personal attacks on members of my family.

You CLAIM to hate politicians and spout of about two terms, one in office and jail but you certainly like to use their tactics when you get yourself cornered. You throw out asinine comments to muddy the waters with no explanations and make personal attacks on members and/or their families.

WHERE IS THAT APOLOGY, RICH?

There are 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who understand binary and those who don't.
CJ7Taz is offline  
post #27 of (permalink) Old 06-27-2007, 01:37 PM
Official Curmudgeon
 
CJ7Taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,706
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
Now, If our moderators were awake, and taz was insulting, he should be cooling off somewhere else...
Actually, it was me that was insulted but I agree, if our moderators were awake, Rich should be cooling off somewhere else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
Anyway, RMS is the correct answer...
Whatís it the answer to and how does it apply to the discussion here?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
taz is stuck on high frequency AC wiring for some reason, and I don't know why....
60 Hz is high frequency?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
Not only is he spouting High Frequency AC, but he's often quoting theoretical information that created a stir a while back, and has since been disproved.
What theory was that? Substantiate your claims. You never do, you also act like a politician, throwing out comments without clarification or substantiation. Well, the way I hear it, you are a shameless extrovert, you once dated a thespian who performed these acts for paying customers, your brother is a homo sapien, and he has a huge collection of phonographic magazines.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
The only part of all that mess that hasn't been disproven is the 'Holes' theory...

Basic Physics requires a seprate and equal reaction for every action.
So if an electron moves in one direction, then something has to go back the other way...
You kinda mangled Newton's third law: law of reciprocal actions. All forces occur in pairs, and these two forces are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction, commonly paraphrased as: For every action force there is an equal, but opposite, reaction force. Opposite, not separate.Wikipedia reference for ya.

Your problem with applying that to the hole theory is that holes have no mass so there can be no counteracting force.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
That's where the 'Anti-Electron' or 'Hole' idea came from...
And I agree that Something has to be moving to compensate for the electrons flow in one direction...
But a hole is not something, itís nothing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
I especially liked his version of an DC circuit turning on and off when trailride or what ever his user name was, was on his soap box...
tas actually called a PULSING DC circuit an AC circuit!
That pretty much clinched it for me that he didn't understand the difference between AC and DC, (or wiring in general).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
Besides, it's been my experience that AC guys don't understand DC...
And DC guys don't understand AC.
I see guys that design Circuits all day long in DC that can quote text book pages on AC, but will still screw it up...
Same in reverse with guys that work in AC all the time.
Nope, wasnít AC or DC, the result was AC waveform(s) riding on top of DC, something you failed to grasp. Itís quite common, some products even make use of it. One I am familiar with is used in control of model railroad engines. They ride the signal on top of the DC power. You would call the signal pulsating DC because it is a series of square waves, but I know that it is nothing more than a bunch of AC waveform harmonics summed together. I can even filter out the different AC harmonic waveforms for you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
Besides, it's been my experience that AC guys don't understand DC...
And DC guys don't understand AC.
I see guys that design Circuits all day long in DC that can quote text book pages on AC, but will still screw it up...
Same in reverse with guys that work in AC all the time.
Serve an apprenticeship part on the railroad and part for the US Air Force, work as an electrician for the, railroad, USAF and auto plants, then get an electrical engineering degree, you wonít have any problem understanding both and how you can have both on a single conductor at the same time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
Anyway, the correct answer is Resistance.
Do a resistance test between your alternator case and your battery negative post. Note the reading.

Start the vehicle and do the same test.
If your reading is higher (and it will be),
YOU NEED A DEDICATED GROUND.
Resistance may well be the answer but what question is it the answer to?

So what did you think you were doing reading resistance with your meter with the engine not running and then running? Did you think you were reading more resistance? WRONG!!!! Your meter uses a battery to provide current through the resistance. The voltage drop across the leads is compared to the voltage drop across an internal resistance. When you started the engine, the alternator provided a second current source through the resistance, adding to or detracting from the current provided by the meter battery, depending on whether the meter leads were in the same polarization as the alternator or opposite to it. This second current produced a change in the voltage across the meter leads. The meter is only accurate for measuring resistance if it is the only source of current across the resistor, this caused an erroneous reading by your meter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
And as for the posted quote, "...Electrons Don't Have A Road Map..."

You are SO WRONG I don't even know where to begin!
Why do you think we put conductors on circuit boards?
So the electrons have a road map!
Thatís the roads, not the map.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Yard Genius View Post
Electrons have a road map, it's the first law of electricity, and it's just like ours!
"Current will take the path of least resistance."
I mentioned exactly that in the same sentence Rich snipped his quote from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7Taz View Post
Wrong, electrons donít have road maps and will go the route of lowest resistance.
So, I was wondering how you got them to turn left into the battery just to come right back out again. Donít sound like the path of least resistance to me.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who understand binary and those who don't.
CJ7Taz is offline  
post #28 of (permalink) Old 06-27-2007, 07:48 PM
Way Outta Control
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: usa
Posts: 10,815
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
For what you want from me - please hold your breath! Holding it till I do it will solve lots of problems!
RRich is offline  
post #29 of (permalink) Old 06-27-2007, 09:08 PM
Journeyman
 
DuneCountry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Winchester Bay OR.
Posts: 134
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
WOW, you guys at it again?
I must admit that everytime this happens I learn something but I also have to chuckle
A lot of knowledge in the banter, we just need to weed it out.

I would love to be there when you guys finally get together and start discussing oh, say, soft top zippers. Leve would probably like to also
Well maybe not.
Anyway, thanks for ground wire 101, I really did learn something

How did I get sand THERE!
DuneCountry is offline  
post #30 of (permalink) Old 06-28-2007, 10:53 AM
Official Curmudgeon
 
CJ7Taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,706
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuneCountry View Post
WOW, you guys at it again?
Not by choice. Not on my part anyway.

If people would quit posting their mistaken beliefs and inaccurate information, I could just sit back and read.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who understand binary and those who don't.
CJ7Taz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome