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Jeep-Short Wheelbase All discussion of short wheelbase Jeeps: CJ, TJ, YJ and JK

 
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post #1 of (permalink) Old 05-17-2007, 10:45 PM
myjolopy
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scout ll

will scout ll running gear fit my 87 yj? someone told me it mite be to narrow and that the d44s in it are garbo, true or false?
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 11:05 AM
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I can't say for your 87 but lots of Jeep guys are running Scout 44's. I would not say they are "garbo", way better than the dana 30/dana 35 combo or AMC 20.
Scout II are 58" WMS to WMS same as your 87?
The front axle will be passenger side drop and zero degrees camber ..... not the best for a street rig.
That can be fixed by grinding/cutting off the yokes and rewelding to 4-8 degrees.

Where are these located and how much if you decide to pass on the them.

"The Heep" 73 Commando, 258 I-6, T-18, Scout Dana 300 w/Tera 4:1 Kit, SOA, PS, Thru-dash Cage, Alcans, OBA, ARB's, HEI, Ft disc, MC 2100,Dents, Mud & Rust.

Last edited by GoldToyBox; 05-18-2007 at 11:20 AM.
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 11:34 PM
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I am happy with me Scout D44s (in a CJ). However, if I am thinking correctly, you have the option of finding just the right Waggy to get your donors from. It's late but I believe Quadratrac Waggy's are offset in the rear and passenger side front. Part time Waggy's are centered rear and driver's drop in the front. The rear will probably be a HD Dana 20, with factory one piece axles. I would search for this set up if I were in your shoes. Otherwise you will have to flip your t-case or swap in an entire tranny t-case combo that has the front output on the pas side.

Is this the only hammer you've got?
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 03:17 AM
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Waggy axles:

60's to Early 70's
Rear: offset or centered Dana 44. May have weak two piece shafts.

Front: Passenger side drop Dana 27, 30 or 44. May have small U-joints. To many possibility's to list here.

Late 70's
Quadra-trac: offset front and rear to the passengers side. Dana 44's front and rear. Good axles. About 58" Wheel Mounting Surface (WMS) to WMS.

80-86
Rear: More or less centered, Heavy duty AMC 20. Heavy Duty AMC 20's use the same ring, Pinion, carrier or lockers as the CJ version, but uses FACTORY welded 2 piece shafts, thicker tubes, and Dana 44 axle bearings. In short the HD AMC 20 is as Good as a Dana 44. Good axle.

Front: Driver side Drop, Dana 44 some later years use a disconnect like the YJ Dana 30, on the passengers side. Good axle except for the possible disconnect.

Both about 58" WMS-WMS

87-92
Rear: More or less centered Dana 44. Good axle.

Front: Driver side drop Dana 44. Some of the earlier ones had a Disconnect passenger side axle like stated before. Good axle except for the possible disconnect.

Both about 58" WMS-WMS.


Scout Axles:

Early 70's:
Rear: Dana 44. About 58" WMS-WMS. Good axle.

Front: Passengers side drop Dana 30 or 44. Some Dana 44's used small/ Dana 30 U-joints. About 58" WMS to WMS. Zero degrees of Caster may lead to handling issue, however this maybe solved by rotating/ grinding spring perches and rotating the knuckles. Quality depends on year and details.

Late 70's:
Rear: Dana 44. About 58" WMS-WMS. Good axle.

Front: Passengers side drop Dana 44. About 58" WMS to WMS. Zero degrees of Caster may lead to handling issue, however this maybe solved by rotating/ grinding spring perches and rotating the knuckles. Good Strength.

In general these potential swaps options, get stronger as the years get later but the axle ratios get higher. For example a 71 Waggy front axle, used: a Dana 27 with small u-joints, and smaller wheel bearings, But often had 4.10 or deeper gears. A 91 Waggy used a Dana 44 Front with Larger u-joints, axle shafts, and larger wheel bearings, but is hard to impossible to find in ratios deeper then 2.72.


YJ axles:
Rear: Dana 35. About 60" WMS-WMS. Poor to Acceptable with Modifications Axle.

Front: Reverse Rotation Dana 30. About 60" WMS to WMS. Acceptable to moderately strong axle.

Keep in mind that YJ's used Wide axles with high positive, offset wheels to lower stress on the wheel bearings. Narrower axles with less positive or negative offset will net the same tire width. but with the effects of harder steering and increased bearing wear.

Wilhelm

I will start using Metric only when the duodecimal system is adopted!!

Last edited by bandhmo2; 05-19-2007 at 03:22 AM.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 05-20-2007, 11:04 AM
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the scout is free wich is also why im considering the trade. i believe its got a v8 with 4spd and d300 twin sticks? i think bcuz there was three sticks coming through the floor boards. i may b wrong though, but at any rate free is always a bonus!
i also have access to a early 90 ford exploder though, but i dont know whats usable off of it except the 8.8 rear axle, any thoughts?
oh yea i need a winch mount, weres the best/cheapest place to get one?
post #6 of (permalink) Old 05-21-2007, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myjolopy View Post
the scout is free wich is also why im considering the trade. i believe its got a v8 with 4spd and d300 twin sticks? i think bcuz there was three sticks coming through the floor boards. i may b wrong though, but at any rate free is always a bonus!
i also have access to a early 90 ford exploder though, but i dont know whats usable off of it except the 8.8 rear axle, any thoughts?
oh yea i need a winch mount, weres the best/cheapest place to get one?
Hummmm .................. Free??? the price is right!
Assuming everything is still stock:
The only year Scout had a Dana 300 is the 1980. Texas bolt pattern and very disireable ... $600 plus on E-bay.
The twin stick could also be on a Dana 20, pre 1980.
IH four speeds were T-18's ( & T-19's), check to be sure it's the granny low version. I believe IH T-18's have mounting ears on the rear of the case, while Jeep/ford T-18's mount to the adapter or tail shaft housing on a 2WD.
Scout V-8 probably not of much use to you .... might find a Scout guy that wants it?
********************************************

More Scout Tranny info from the Binder Pages:
Scout transmission info
Believe it or not, the last time this came up I actually wrote it all down and saved it so here it is. At that time, I had illusions of writing a book on this type of thing, but that's obviously not going to happen...

However, don't pirate my findings below for profit - everyone is, however, welcome to save them for yours and your friends 4-wheeling pleasure though... - Chuck :-)

#1) T-19's from IH's are the ticket. There are 2wd and 4wd and 4.0 and 6.32 gearsets.

#2) The 2wd's are almost always 6.32 gearsets.

#3) The 4wd Scout-2 T-19's are usually 4.0 gearsets. The exception to this is some 4cyl Scout 2’s - especially the ones with the single speed transfer case.

#4) Scout T-19's have an adapter plate and output shaft to mate up to a large-hole Dana 20 - even when they are mounted up to the single-speed chain-drive transfer case.

#5) All IH T-19's DO NOT have the trans mount built into the 1" thick cast-iron adapter plate like the T-18's do. The adapter plate DOES NOT go down below the trans housing with a provision for the trans mount - the provision for the trans mount is cast right into the T-19 case. This means a couple of things - A) You CAN put an IH T-18 adapter plate onto an IH T-19 - they have the same bolt pattern, and you will end up with 2 places to bolt the trans mount. B) You CANNOT put an IH T-19 adapter plate onto ANY T-18 housing because now even though you'll get the trans and Dana 20 transfer mated up fine, there will be NO provision for the trans mount. C) If you go with an IH T-19 in a CJ, you have to re-drill the cross-member/skidplate-to-frame holes because it will sit forward about 1.5" from the stock T-18 holes because of the trans-mount provision being on the trans case on a T-19...

#6) To mate an IH T-19 case up to a Jeep T-150 bellhousing, you have to re-drill for the 4 large studs in the front of the trans case, and bolt it up to the bell-housing and then bolt it into the Jeep as a married unit. Once you have the correct collar for the front of the trans, it can be used to index the trans with the bellhousing to get these holes right.

#7) A Ford T-18 6.32 13-tooth input shaft is Identical to a Jeep T-18 6.32 13-tooth input shaft EXCEPT for the pilot bushing snout being too short. This is made up for by using the special Advance Adapters pilot busing that rides in the area where the automatic torque converter snout would ride in the AMC crank. Now, the Ford T-18 6.32 13-tooth input shaft has the same gear on it as the input shaft for the IH 6.32 T-19, or ALL 6.32 T-19’s for that matter. So, one of these should be used to set up the IH 6.32 trans (18 or 19) for Jeep use.

#8) You’ll also need a Ford front collar, which is identical to Jeep, and this crosses all gear ratios and T-18’s and 19’s. IH has a real big thing, but it can easily be replaced with the Ford unit because the 4 bolt holes that hold the collar on are exactly the same.

#9) Jeep and IH 4wd T-18’s have the same mainshaft or output shaft. T-18’s and T-19’s have DIFFERENT mainshafts even though they are very close – the snap-ring grooves are in different places and not in very good places to be converted over on a lathe…

#10) You CANNOT bolt a Jeep Dana 20 up to an IH T-19 even though the adapter plate and output shaft are right because the Jeep Dana 20 shifter has a MAJOR clearance problem with the IH T-19 case. This is no biggie – use an IH Dana 20 instead as they are the same in every way except the shifter and an IH’s D20 shifter is a better design and lends itself easily to a twin-stick conversion.

All of this makes the whole thing sound like a royal pain until you sum it all up into the “Swap Options” below:

Swap Option #1) You have found a Scout with a 6.32 T-19 and a Dana 20. Great! - you can yank the whole mess out, swap out the input shaft and collar with the Ford 13-tooth input shaft and collar, and bolt the whole nine yards up behind an AMC engine by re-drilling the bell-housing.

Swap Option #2) You have found a single-speed xfer case Scout-2 with a 6.32 gearset. This trans is ready to accept an IH Dana 20 but NOT a Jeep Dana 20 (see #10 above) by removing the transfer case and also the coupler on the output shaft of the trans and replacing it with the standard Dana 20 26-tooth bull or input gear. Swap out the input shaft and collar with the Ford 13-tooth input shaft and collar, bolt up an IH Dana 20, and bolt the whole nine yards up behind an AMC engine by re-drilling the bell-housing.

Swap Option #3) You have found a Scout with a 4.0 T-19 and a Dana 20. This is the most common Scout II out there – it should be easy to find one of these. First of all, you can forget about swapping out just the input shaft and collar with a Ford 4.0 input shaft and collar because I don’t think there ever was such a thing and even if there was, that input shaft with the proper gear is impossible to get. So, this is where it starts to get interesting. What you are going to need to do here is also get a 6.32 2wd IH T-19 and use the gearset from it, a Ford 13-tooth input shaft and collar, and the, mainshaft (output shaft) and adapter plate from the 4.0 trans Scout 2 trans you started with. Both transmission cases will be the same.

Swap Option #4) You want to use a Dana 18 transfer case with your IH T-19. Easy – just assemble the Jeep Dana 18 guts into a large-hole IH or Jeep Dana 20 case. The Jeep Dana 18 shifter housing will have to be ground doen about Ľ” on the inside to clear the IH T-19 case. That’s it!

I figured all of this out by trial and error and there may be even more options that you can figure out too by rummaging around. Just because you haven’t heard of it before does not mean it will not work. In my fried Greg’s Jeep, we used a combination of option #3 above, and put a Dana 18 twin-stick transfer case behind it – all in a ’79 CJ-7 with an offset Dana 20 rear! The options are endless…

So go for it and have a good time – I’ve done 4 T-18/19 tranny swaps in CJ’s and they were all different and all presented their own challenges. It’s A LOT of hard work, but well worth the effort on the trail! Remember, the project itself and especially the hunting in the junkyards is half the fun! :-)

P.S. (I can't believe I'm giving all these secrets away but I'm gradually exiting the "hard-core" Jeep stage as everyone got married and is now having kids...) Anyway, any gears, input shafts, or collars that you need, call Border Parts in California - they have everything for a very reasonable price - they have the Ford Collars and 13-tooth Ford input shafts - brand new and CHEAP!

"The Heep" 73 Commando, 258 I-6, T-18, Scout Dana 300 w/Tera 4:1 Kit, SOA, PS, Thru-dash Cage, Alcans, OBA, ARB's, HEI, Ft disc, MC 2100,Dents, Mud & Rust.
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