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post #1 of (permalink) Old 04-13-2007, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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Unhappy Input shaft for T19 question

Well, I thought I ran over a motorcycle gang with grenades in their saddle bags, but, it was just the input shaft snapping. This caused the bellhousing to shatter and the rear drive shaft to come apart and break. OUCH!!! Anyway, I can't for the life of me remember where or what input shaft I had to buy to mate the t19 (scout) up to my AMC 304. Does anybody know the size and where I can go to get another? Also, any idea what could have caused this???

Thanks for your help.
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 01:34 PM
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Very sorry it has taken so long for me to respond. I saw your question right after you posted but was very did not have time to respond and hoped that someone else would. Try this link to an old post hopefully it clears a few things up. https://forums.off-road.com/jeep-shor...9-into-cj.html

If not here is my under standing. The T-19 came in 3 different versions 4.0:1 and 6.32:1 low gear in the scouts, and 5.11:1 in Fords. My understanding is that the input shafts are the same as T-18 input shafts of the the same gear ratio. So, if your transmission came from a Scout you could have and is 6.31:1 you could have a ford T-18 input shaft (6.5") and a custom pilot bushing that sticks out from the crank. This would work with a T-150 or T-176 jeep bell housing.

You also could have a Jeep input shaft from a T-18. In this case no special pilot bushing is used, but Jeep used at least 4 different lengths of input shafts on T-18's each with there own bell housing and in some cases a spacer. So there are many possibilities. And I do not know the lengths for all of these. I do know that the longest involves a bout a 13" long input shaft. The shortest would use an about 7" input shaft, and would use a T-150 or T-176 jeep bell housing with a stock pilot bushing.

For all I know there may be a way to use a Scout bell housing and adapter at the engine which would include a lot more variables.

Long story short there are just to many ways to have done this swap to give you a solid answer. You will have to remember what you did in the conversion or take it apart and find out.

Wilhelm

I will start using Metric only when the duodecimal system is adopted!!
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 06:41 PM
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Like "bandhmo2" I seen this but I was on the road. Sorry for the delay.

From my notes (usual non guarenttee on accuracy)
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To install the T18 or T19 from an International Scout or truck it takes an input gear change and some modifications to the case. The input gear should be one used in the Ford Applications, which is about the same length used in Jeeps from 1976 to 1986. By using this gear you can use your stock bell housing. The cases used by I.H.C. were bolted from inside the bell housing so you can either drill and reinforce the inside of the bell housing to bolt from the inside or weld tabs on the case and match the existing bolt pattern. On 1980 and later bell housings you will also have to drill and tap holes for the wider pattern. If you got your transmission out of a 4X4 and plan to bolt it to a Dana 20 you have the correct pattern or adapter on the back already. But if you want to bolt a Dana 300 onto it you must drill and tap the back of the case to match the adapter. But of course the easiest way is to find a case used in the Ford applications, then you only have to drill and tap the bell housing. Main Drive Gear Package contains input gear, bearing retainer, front bearing, pilot bushing and seal.
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I got lots more info if you need it.
Also from the damage you describe .... I'm not so sure the shaft cased all this?

"The Heep" 73 Commando, 258 I-6, T-18, Scout Dana 300 w/Tera 4:1 Kit, SOA, PS, Thru-dash Cage, Alcans, OBA, ARB's, HEI, Ft disc, MC 2100,Dents, Mud & Rust.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 06:46 PM
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More Scout info from the Binder.com site
The info about parts at the bottom is several years old, good luck

**************************
Scout transmission info
Believe it or not, the last time this came up I actually wrote it all down and saved it so here it is. At that time, I had illusions of writing a book on this type of thing, but that's obviously not going to happen...

However, don't pirate my findings below for profit - everyone is, however, welcome to save them for yours and your friends 4-wheeling pleasure though... - Chuck :-)

#1) T-19's from IH's are the ticket. There are 2wd and 4wd and 4.0 and 6.32 gearsets.

#2) The 2wd's are almost always 6.32 gearsets.

#3) The 4wd Scout-2 T-19's are usually 4.0 gearsets. The exception to this is some 4cyl Scout 2’s - especially the ones with the single speed transfer case.

#4) Scout T-19's have an adapter plate and output shaft to mate up to a large-hole Dana 20 - even when they are mounted up to the single-speed chain-drive transfer case.

#5) All IH T-19's DO NOT have the trans mount built into the 1" thick cast-iron adapter plate like the T-18's do. The adapter plate DOES NOT go down below the trans housing with a provision for the trans mount - the provision for the trans mount is cast right into the T-19 case. This means a couple of things - A) You CAN put an IH T-18 adapter plate onto an IH T-19 - they have the same bolt pattern, and you will end up with 2 places to bolt the trans mount. B) You CANNOT put an IH T-19 adapter plate onto ANY T-18 housing because now even though you'll get the trans and Dana 20 transfer mated up fine, there will be NO provision for the trans mount. C) If you go with an IH T-19 in a CJ, you have to re-drill the cross-member/skidplate-to-frame holes because it will sit forward about 1.5" from the stock T-18 holes because of the trans-mount provision being on the trans case on a T-19...

#6) To mate an IH T-19 case up to a Jeep T-150 bellhousing, you have to re-drill for the 4 large studs in the front of the trans case, and bolt it up to the bell-housing and then bolt it into the Jeep as a married unit. Once you have the correct collar for the front of the trans, it can be used to index the trans with the bellhousing to get these holes right.

#7) A Ford T-18 6.32 13-tooth input shaft is Identical to a Jeep T-18 6.32 13-tooth input shaft EXCEPT for the pilot bushing snout being too short. This is made up for by using the special Advance Adapters pilot busing that rides in the area where the automatic torque converter snout would ride in the AMC crank. Now, the Ford T-18 6.32 13-tooth input shaft has the same gear on it as the input shaft for the IH 6.32 T-19, or ALL 6.32 T-19’s for that matter. So, one of these should be used to set up the IH 6.32 trans (18 or 19) for Jeep use.

#8) You’ll also need a Ford front collar, which is identical to Jeep, and this crosses all gear ratios and T-18’s and 19’s. IH has a real big thing, but it can easily be replaced with the Ford unit because the 4 bolt holes that hold the collar on are exactly the same.

#9) Jeep and IH 4wd T-18’s have the same mainshaft or output shaft. T-18’s and T-19’s have DIFFERENT mainshafts even though they are very close – the snap-ring grooves are in different places and not in very good places to be converted over on a lathe…

#10) You CANNOT bolt a Jeep Dana 20 up to an IH T-19 even though the adapter plate and output shaft are right because the Jeep Dana 20 shifter has a MAJOR clearance problem with the IH T-19 case. This is no biggie – use an IH Dana 20 instead as they are the same in every way except the shifter and an IH’s D20 shifter is a better design and lends itself easily to a twin-stick conversion.

All of this makes the whole thing sound like a royal pain until you sum it all up into the “Swap Options” below:

Swap Option #1) You have found a Scout with a 6.32 T-19 and a Dana 20. Great! - you can yank the whole mess out, swap out the input shaft and collar with the Ford 13-tooth input shaft and collar, and bolt the whole nine yards up behind an AMC engine by re-drilling the bell-housing.

Swap Option #2) You have found a single-speed xfer case Scout-2 with a 6.32 gearset. This trans is ready to accept an IH Dana 20 but NOT a Jeep Dana 20 (see #10 above) by removing the transfer case and also the coupler on the output shaft of the trans and replacing it with the standard Dana 20 26-tooth bull or input gear. Swap out the input shaft and collar with the Ford 13-tooth input shaft and collar, bolt up an IH Dana 20, and bolt the whole nine yards up behind an AMC engine by re-drilling the bell-housing.

Swap Option #3) You have found a Scout with a 4.0 T-19 and a Dana 20. This is the most common Scout II out there – it should be easy to find one of these. First of all, you can forget about swapping out just the input shaft and collar with a Ford 4.0 input shaft and collar because I don’t think there ever was such a thing and even if there was, that input shaft with the proper gear is impossible to get. So, this is where it starts to get interesting. What you are going to need to do here is also get a 6.32 2wd IH T-19 and use the gearset from it, a Ford 13-tooth input shaft and collar, and the, mainshaft (output shaft) and adapter plate from the 4.0 trans Scout 2 trans you started with. Both transmission cases will be the same.

Swap Option #4) You want to use a Dana 18 transfer case with your IH T-19. Easy – just assemble the Jeep Dana 18 guts into a large-hole IH or Jeep Dana 20 case. The Jeep Dana 18 shifter housing will have to be ground doen about Ľ” on the inside to clear the IH T-19 case. That’s it!

I figured all of this out by trial and error and there may be even more options that you can figure out too by rummaging around. Just because you haven’t heard of it before does not mean it will not work. In my fried Greg’s Jeep, we used a combination of option #3 above, and put a Dana 18 twin-stick transfer case behind it – all in a ’79 CJ-7 with an offset Dana 20 rear! The options are endless…

So go for it and have a good time – I’ve done 4 T-18/19 tranny swaps in CJ’s and they were all different and all presented their own challenges. It’s A LOT of hard work, but well worth the effort on the trail! Remember, the project itself and especially the hunting in the junkyards is half the fun! :-)

P.S. (I can't believe I'm giving all these secrets away but I'm gradually exiting the "hard-core" Jeep stage as everyone got married and is now having kids...) Anyway, any gears, input shafts, or collars that you need, call Border Parts in California - they have everything for a very reasonable price - they have the Ford Collars and 13-tooth Ford input shafts - brand new and CHEAP!

"The Heep" 73 Commando, 258 I-6, T-18, Scout Dana 300 w/Tera 4:1 Kit, SOA, PS, Thru-dash Cage, Alcans, OBA, ARB's, HEI, Ft disc, MC 2100,Dents, Mud & Rust.
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