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post #1 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Electrical Gurus::

I do some electronics work at work and it got me to thinking about an automatic reving system for the tj.

I have seen the high throttle modules that can be put inline with the Cruise in order to have touch button Throttle control for running engine at high Idle for welding/ air compressor operation. One of my thoughts is since I do not have Cruise and if I did I would not want to pay the 200 bucks for the module, Would it be practical to modify the signal from either the TPS or MAP sensor in order to gain a temporary higher idle speed?

Thinking something that could be controlled from the cab to tell the computer to Idle up?? What has me thinking it won't work or won't work well is that you are adjusting the mixture to make it work??????

GOT me thinking ...

any Ideas??
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 04:33 PM
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Re: Electrical Gurus::

Hand throttle from Rubicon Express (you could make your own for a bit less) that would let you set your idle where you wanted it. I use mine when running the OBA to keep the idle at about 2k. It's also helpfull as a "3rd foot" when you stick shift guys need to use the bake and let out the clutch on a hill...
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 07:44 PM
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Re: Electrical Gurus::

Bike shop - shifter and cable. Mount it on the shift lever where you can operate it with your thumb.
Use a 2" piece of chain to attach it to the linkage.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 07:54 PM
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Re: Electrical Gurus::

[ QUOTE ]
Bike shop - shifter and cable. Mount it on the shift lever where you can operate it with your thumb.
Use a 2" piece of chain to attach it to the linkage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two or three of the kids old bikes hanging around here... I'm not going to a bike shop, but I need to do it.

Actually I remember playing with DirtDog's back in May, Rio was there but he didn't get to see. DirtDog is getting excited now so I should shut up.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/40BEER.gif[/img]
Dale

Edit: If you have the need to steal DirtDog's Jeep... Eject the CD BEFORE you turn on the key. A lesson well learned in my case.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 08:56 PM
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Re: Electrical Gurus::

You're over thinking the issue. Using an electronic control could get very ugly, very quickly. There are several things you'd have to control to keep the idle under control.

But to avoid all that unpleasantness you could also just drill into the throttle body.

This introduces a vacuum leak and is detected and the ISCM will attempt to control the throttle via the ECU. So, now if you can control the amount of leakage, via a manual throttle choke cable to close/open the hole... you could raise lower the idle a predetermined amount without mucking up the ECU. The ECU would just think everything's fine and dandy.

If you're still intent on a switchable electronic control, then you simply make the drilled port opened/closed electronically.

See... more'n one way to skin that cat.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 08:58 PM
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Re: Electrical Gurus::

It seems that both our DDs (comp controlled FI POSs) both idle up when the AC is on. Maybe you can find out what signals the comp from the AC to make it idle up.... OTOH, not sure if this will get you the rpms your looking for. If not, the hand throttle will!
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 12-24-2005, 09:35 PM
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Re: Electrical Gurus::

[ QUOTE ]
I do some electronics work at work and it got me to thinking about an automatic reving system for the tj.

I have seen the high throttle modules that can be put inline with the Cruise in order to have touch button Throttle control for running engine at high Idle for welding/ air compressor operation. One of my thoughts is since I do not have Cruise and if I did I would not want to pay the 200 bucks for the module, Would it be practical to modify the signal from either the TPS or MAP sensor in order to gain a temporary higher idle speed?

Thinking something that could be controlled from the cab to tell the computer to Idle up?? What has me thinking it won't work or won't work well is that you are adjusting the mixture to make it work??????

GOT me thinking ...

any Ideas??

[/ QUOTE ]

Silly me, when I read your post, I thought you were looking for something that would automatically sense the current draw from the welder or sense that the air compressor had kicked on, run up the rpm and then drop back once the demand had ended.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 12-26-2005, 01:47 PM
 
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Re: Electrical Gurus::


For the guys that have never used a field welder, kicking up the throttle seems like a good idea...
Then you let the engine run for 45 minutes while you get everything ready, get your self adjusted, chase the welding rods or nuts and bolts, ect. you dropped...
The list of time wasting goes on, from there, all with an engine screaming in close proximity from you...

I guess if you are only trying to birdsh!t a scab onto a ORV once every five years, with 8 people standing around offering to help, that is acceptable...

I have a General Purpose Jeep...
I live in a farm area, and we use On Board Welders up ladders, down holes, under vehicles, across giant farm machinery, on every kind of metal you can think of, and we use them on a daily basis at least two seasons...
That's why I'm working on the Welder, Plasma Cutter, Single & Three phase AC, plus high output DC combined unit...

And you just came along with an idea I could really use, even if you decide not to pursue it!
----------------

Getting it to kick up the idle when you struck an arc wouldn't be the hard part...
Getting it to limit the RPM increase is the pain.
You have to use a mechanical limiter...
IE:
1. Physical stop on rotation of the throttle blade shaft.
2. Idle solenoid piston with limited stroke, Like an AC high idle piston.

My first version had a very long stroke, and the engine RPM exceeded safe operation limits by about 4,000 RPM!
Scared the crap out of me!
Then I tried a mechanical stop, but this was impractical because you had to disengage the stop before normal operation, and if you are going to do that, because sure as crap you'll forget to disengage the stop and won't be able to throttle up when you take off...

My second try used a short stroke vacuum piston, electronic vacuum switch, and a voltage sensing circuit to turn it on and off.
This seems to work well, but you have to go up or down in rod sizes to control heat at the weld.
The system is pretty much 'On & Off', so you have a pretty hot current stream to deal with...
Larger rods cool it down, smaller rods will burn hot, and medium rods are the thing for common bird sh!t welding.

This rig does work VERY well for the plasma cutter when it's adjusted correctly.

I'd like to have one where I could have a control knob on the stinger where I could turn the heat up or down a little, say 10% of the total. That would really allow me to fine tune the current to the rod & weld.
I'm just not educated enough to build such a circuit...(hint)
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 12-26-2005, 02:34 PM
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Re: Electrical Gurus::

It wouldn't seem too difficult to design a circuit that could adjust and hold constant out voltage. Or control the current with a little more work and a shunt in the output. Then a couple wires and a pot on the stinger could serve as a trimmer.

Maybe I'm missing something. How much current does it take to get an alternator to run full power? Or, what's the resistance of the rotor winding? That should be a plain resistive load. I guess in constant current mode you would need something to limit open circuit voltage to around 50 volts or so.
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 12-26-2005, 03:10 PM
 
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Re: Electrical Gurus::

If your just wanting 3 different RPMs then I would suggest manualing controlling the sol-vac solenoid like those found on a Carter BBD. IT would be prett simple to turn on the power to solenoid nad then use one of those electric vacuum switches out of the emmision stuff you probably have sitting in a box someplace to add vacuum to the increase the travel to the next RPM.



For the finer control JYG needs I would think using the Stepper motor off a an old BBD Carter. The control circuit probably wouldnt be that hard. Problem would be the time lag between current draw and RPM increase.
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