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post #1 of (permalink) Old 09-01-2005, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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bbd carb /msd ignition

85 cj-7 258 6cy. did the team rush coil and cap upgrade as well as a msd offroad ignition. I got an adapter plug to go to the distributor and disconected the factory plug taped it up and tied it up. But now I noticed the pins in the bbd carb are not moving are these two things conected? do I have to tie the factory harness back in some where? thanks
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 09-01-2005, 01:25 AM
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Re: bbd carb /msd ignition

The minute you added the MSD, you bypassed the Duraspark module which is connected to the computer which moves those pins in and out.

I personally think the MSD is a waste of money if you do the other mods.

Just wait a short time....TR will chime in and give exact details.....he dreams about this stuff in his sleep.
post #3 of (permalink) Old 09-01-2005, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: bbd carb /msd ignition

I thought that might be the problem. But I must say the msd ignition is the best mod I have done. I put the coil and cap on first and noticed a little change but nothing significant. with the msd the motor pulls right down to 200 rpm and I now have power above 3000rpm. Before the msd my power basicly died a 3000 rpm not quite a total miss but just no power with the msd it pulls threw to 4000 rpm like it never has before. i would highly recomend the msd!! I hope TR can fix the carb issue.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 11:52 AM
 
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Re: bbd carb /msd ignition

'85 emissions with bbd...

Here we go...
The MSD 6 series (or off road in your case) is a real boon to these little, and old, enignes.
You are increasing spark energies 100 to 1,000 percent below 5,000 RPM.
This is right where you need the spark energy.

I think the problem you are having is because you bypassed the entire "Intigrated" emissions system when you pluged the MSD module directly into the distributor.

When you did that, the so called 'Emissions Module' isn't getting a signal from the distributor anymore, and hasn't a clue what RPM the engine is running, and therefore, doesn't activate the 'PINS' in the BBD.
--------------------

Here is your fix,

1. Plug the distributor back into the stock harness.
(The mag trigger wires on the MSD module are not used, but DON'T cut them off or anything, you may want them later!)

2. Plug the MSD White wire into the Harness Coil Connector Green wire port. This is the 'Negitive' (-) side of the coil connector, and may also have 'Tach' molded into the connector.

3. Plug the MSD Small Red wire into the Harness Coil Connector Red wire port. This is the 'Positive' (+) side of the coil connector.

4. Leave the MSD Orange & Black wires connected to the Ignition coil just like you have them...

5. Leave the MSD heavy Red & Black hooked to the battery just like you have them...
--------------------

This will put the MSD module AFTER the Emissions module (unless you have already done the 'Nutter' bypass...)
But the MSD still controlls the ignition energy.

Not as painful as you thought it was going to be!
--------------------

Be sure to beat DDawg over the head [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/chair.gif[/img] with how much better an MSD 6 series makes your vehicle run! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2005, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: bbd carb /msd ignition

ok do I leave the green wire atached to the tach input on the msd and hook up the white wire to it as well? I under stand that I use only the white wire not the green and violet from the mag pick up. If I knew this sooner I wouldn't have bought the msd 8869 but I guess you learn as you go. One more question I bought the springs for the distributor do I have to pull the distributor to install them if so is it worth all the work?
Thanks again Brain
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 09-03-2005, 09:03 AM
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Re: bbd carb /msd ignition

That makes a neat set-up! In essence the Duraspark is still giving the signal to the computer, allowing proper fuel control, AND it's triggering the MSD for a good spark.

A possible cure for vehicles that are having trouble passing emissions tests.

The distributor springs - you mean a "re-curve" kit?

They are most likely weaker springs, allowing the advance to come in quicker. That's fine for a street or drag machine, but not so good off road where you want low end guts.
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 09-03-2005, 03:15 PM
 
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Re: bbd carb /msd ignition

Quote:
"ok do I leave the green wire atached to the tach input on the msd and hook up the white wire to it as well?"

What are you talking about!????!!!???
Read the instructions again...

2. Plug the <u>MSD White Wire</u> into the <u>Harness Coil Connector Green wire port.</u>
This is the 'Negative' (-) side of the <u>Coil Connector</u>,
and may also have 'Tach' molded into the connector.

At NO point does it tell you to plug anything into the MSD Tach port...
This is a good way to kill the module!

Take the MSD White wire, and connect it to the Factory Harness Ignition Coil Connector Green Wire Port.
Take the Small MSD Red wire and connect it to the Factory Harness Ignition Coil Connector Red wire port.
Unplug the MSD from the distributor, and plug the FACTORY HARNESS INTO THE DISTRIBUTOR.
The MSD mag trigger (purple and green) WILL NOT BE USED.

MSD Cable #8869 Will NOT be used at this time.


This Image Courtesy Of MSD Inc./ Autotronic Controls Corp. and Much Thanks To Them For The Permission To Display It!

-------------------------

Quote:
"I under stand that I use only the white wire not the green and violet from the mag pick up. If I knew this sooner I wouldn't have bought the msd 8869 but I guess you learn as you go."

It's not wasted. You can sell it to someone that isn't using a BBD, or you can save it for a day when YOU aren't using a BBD...
If this is the ONLY money you spend on stuff you don't use or doesn't work, consider yourself blessed! I've got a couple of garage bays full of stuff that didn't work, didn't fit,
turned out to be junk, or was just plain stupid!
-------------------------

Quote:
"One more question I bought the springs for the distributor do I have to pull the distributor to install them if so is it worth all the work?"

You don't have to pull the distributor to install the springs, it's just much easier for someone that is experienced with doing this sort of thing.
Unloading a Motorcraft distributor from the top can be hard on your back bending over the engine, and it can be hard on parts. Lots of parts get lost easily when you are doing something like this.
It's easier to crank the engine over to #1, locate the mark on the balancer on the timing tab, flip the cap and plug wires, and pull the distributor.
You can take the distributor inside and work on it at a work bench then...

I'm getting ready to do another Motorcraft distributor for a friend, so I'll post the steps on my web site while I'm doing it.
That should help some people... Please keep in mind, it's a lot easier for me to build an ignition system from scratch than to make a web site with pictures! (86 thumbs tied in a knot...)
So give me a little time and I'll post it.
-----------------------
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 09-06-2005, 02:35 PM
 
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Re: bbd carb /msd ignition

Wonder if this guy got what he wanted?
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 05-03-2006, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: bbd carb /msd ignition

yes and no I have the carb working again but have a slight miss back. what if I hook up the msd diect to the distributor and tap into these wires with the factory wires to the ingition modual that way I will have the best signal to the msd and the carb sould still work?
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 05-03-2006, 04:19 AM
 
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Re: bbd carb /msd ignition

Not if you want the computer to work properly. The distributor first sends it's signal to the computer and then the computer sends a signal the duraspark box. The signal might be retarded somewhat depending upon conditions.

If you plug directy into the distributor then you have bypassed the computer. And this caused your orignal problem. Your miss may not be ignition related. Not everything can be cured by throwing more spark at it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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